Misconceptions of kung fu practitioners

[kingoftheforest]

Due to the nature of this forum I choose not to post video on it.

Not personally towards you, but I don't feel it would be constructive of my time to shoot a video and place it on this particular forum.


I'm sure if you do some research on the forum you can understand why I feel it would be a waste of time.

[USArmyBJJ]

Or you could video it.

That would definitely be helpful. I can't find any video that matches the movement you're describing. Do you have a video so I can see what you're talking about?

[Ben Grimm]

Or you could video it.

[kingoftheforest]

The problem is that I don't understand the movement you're describing.

Well I am sorry that's about the best I can describe it over the web. Maybe if you're in the Tampa area sometime we can schedule a seminar and I can show you what I mean.

[USArmyBJJ]

Run this scenario in class with the above idea in mind. It'll be fun once you see it, just don't go to fast at first, speed it up as you understand more.

Your a smart boy you'll figure it out with a little trial and error.

The problem is that I don't understand the movement you're describing.

[kingoftheforest]

Not sure I understand this move. Can you re-explain?

Run this scenario in class with the above idea in mind. It'll be fun once you see it, just don't go to fast at first, speed it up as you understand more.

Your a smart boy you'll figure it out with a little trial and error.

[USArmyBJJ]

Also if their knees are under your shoulders it puts you at an advantage of leverage because you can use your arms to trap out their punches and pull them over as well, thus achieving mount yourself or if they really mess up breaking their leg in the process.

Not sure I understand this move. Can you re-explain?

[jubaji]

If you hit a guy in the belly, regardless of what technique or style you use he will lean forward.

The eyes, throat and groin are valuable targets, because at any given time if your opponent can touch you, you can attack at least one of these, barring any major physical deformities on your part.

If a person is sitting on your chest their groin is exposed, even if biting it is your only option, depends on how bad you want to "win", whatever winning is in your mind. it differs from person to person I'm sure.

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[kingoftheforest]

I could be wrong (and often am), but I believe that both the hip sweep and electric chair sweep are sweeps from the guard and half-guard respectively - not sweeps from under the mount.

If someone has high mount on you, I don't see the bridging escape that KOTF and I were talking about working. KOTF, what would be the escape in Kung Fu for someone sitting high on the chest? Presumably, you could grab them and pull them in for eye gouging etc (as you spoke of before), but considering that his knees would be under your shoulders, I'm not sure you'd have the leverage to do it.

If his knees are over your shoulders then you'd still buck your hips but would use that movement to power your shoulder turning.

You generate all your power from your hips in KF but it translates throughout your entire body. So in essence you'd still buck and roll over you'd just concentrate the power from the move up into your shoulders.

Also if their knees are under your shoulders it puts you at an advantage of leverage because you can use your arms to trap out their punches and pull them over as well, thus achieving mount yourself or if they really mess up breaking their leg in the process.

Usually you can only get the leg break on beginners but the real fun is if you do it right they can't get their hands down and they smash the old noggin on the floor.

[USArmyBJJ]

Ever had someone up high on your chest (full mount)?

The hip sweep was suggested recently by a pro MMA guy on anotrher forum as a potential escape from the mount.

See the so called "electric chair (ala Eddy Bravo) SWEEP.

You can dislocate or hyper extend big joints too from the "inferrior" position...

Just a thought...

I could be wrong (and often am), but I believe that both the hip sweep and electric chair sweep are sweeps from the guard and half-guard respectively - not sweeps from under the mount.

If someone has high mount on you, I don't see the bridging escape that KOTF and I were talking about working. KOTF, what would be the escape in Kung Fu for someone sitting high on the chest? Presumably, you could grab them and pull them in for eye gouging etc (as you spoke of before), but considering that his knees would be under your shoulders, I'm not sure you'd have the leverage to do it.

[Tant01]

Someone pointed out another route recently...

You pretty much buck with your hips yes. It's basic body mechanics so there are only so many ways that it will work.






Usually when something bites my crotch I shy away from it quick and try to make it stop. but that's just a general response it may not be 100% all the time. So you should follow it up quickly with something else.

Ever had someone up high on your chest (full mount)?

The hip sweep was suggested recently by a pro MMA guy on anotrher forum as a potential escape from the mount.

See the so called "electric chair (ala Eddy Bravo) SWEEP.

You can dislocate or hyper extend big joints too from the "inferrior" position...

Just a thought...

[USArmyBJJ]

You pretty much buck with your hips yes. It's basic body mechanics so there are only so many ways that it will work.

Is it the same as this one: YouTube - Basic Mount Escape

Or is it done differently in Kung Fu?

Usually when something bites my crotch I shy away from it quick and try to make it stop. but that's just a general response it may not be 100% all the time. So you should follow it up quickly with something else.

I guess that depends on the strength of their jaw, right? I was thinking they'd bite and hang on.....then I don't know if you could jump up and get out. I've never been in the situation, but I would think that my response would be to punch harder and harder at their face....while screaming in pain at the thought of someone biting my crotch.

[kingoftheforest]

Do you bridge with your hips when you do this? Or do you literally just roll to your side? I'll be honest - if you're just rolling, it seems like it wouldn't really do anything to get the guy off of you. But I might be misunderstanding the technique. Do you have a video or picture or something of this? (looked on youtube, but didn't find anything) -- I think it would be pretty interesting to just compare and contrast diferent arts' response to particular situations.

You pretty much buck with your hips yes. It's basic body mechanics so there are only so many ways that it will work.

Wouldn't biting them on the crotch keep them attached to you?

Usually when something bites my crotch I shy away from it quick and try to make it stop. but that's just a general response it may not be 100% all the time. So you should follow it up quickly with something else.

[USArmyBJJ]

Basically you shift weight to one side or the other and roll. This also depends on what KF styles you were taught and what the situation is during the fight.

Do you bridge with your hips when you do this? Or do you literally just roll to your side? I'll be honest - if you're just rolling, it seems like it wouldn't really do anything to get the guy off of you. But I might be misunderstanding the technique. Do you have a video or picture or something of this? (looked on youtube, but didn't find anything) -- I think it would be pretty interesting to just compare and contrast diferent arts' response to particular situations.

There are some things you can do to make your opponent get off you too. I.E. biting the crotch or pulling them in and attacking the throat or eyes if available. Depends on the situation.

Wouldn't biting them on the crotch keep them attached to you?

I will say I spend more time practicing not being in this position as opposed to getting out of it. Not to say i don't train to get out of being mounted, but there are plenty of ways to avoid it.

Good idea. I don't think anyone in any art wants to be mounted! That is not a good position to be in.

It takes less motor function to strike someone than it does to grab them, and I prefer the traditional Judo method of hitting then grabbing if I'm going that route.

I prefer using strikes to move into grappling as well. BJ Penn had a really good section on that in his book.

Once you are mounted by someone you are now attempting to put a band aide on the situation because you lost the advantage somewhere. In practice you have the opportunity to go back and replay the scenario over and over to see where things went wrong and what you can do to fix the problem.

Agreed.

Somewhere along the line you lost the good positioning. So the real issue isn't how to get out of the mount (although this is valuable information that is a must need just in case) but in the precepts of most KF styles you would have messed up long before you get to this point.

Agreed. I think in the precepts of just about any martial art, you want to avoid being mounted. I wouldn't go so far as to say that if you're there it's because you "messed up," (sometimes, the other guy is just better than you, or just lucky, or whatever) but it is a terrible situation that you should know how to escape.

[kingoftheforest]

How would you perform the mount escape? I know the one you would use in BJJ, but I'm interested in how other arts teach the escape from here. Is it a bridge and roll kind of thing (similar to the basic BJJ escape)? Or something else entirely?

Basically you shift weight to one side or the other and roll. This also depends on what KF styles you were taught and what the situation is during the fight.

There are some things you can do to make your opponent get off you too. I.E. biting the crotch or pulling them in and attacking the throat or eyes if available. Depends on the situation.

I will say I spend more time practicing not being in this position as opposed to getting out of it. Not to say i don't train to get out of being mounted, but there are plenty of ways to avoid it.

Coming down on top of your opponent, subduing your opponent before they have a chance to grapple you and such.

It takes less motor function to strike someone than it does to grab them, and I prefer the traditional Judo method of hitting then grabbing if I'm going that route.

Once you are mounted by someone you are now attempting to put a band aide on the situation because you lost the advantage somewhere. In practice you have the opportunity to go back and replay the scenario over and over to see where things went wrong and what you can do to fix the problem.

Somewhere along the line you lost the good positioning. So the real issue isn't how to get out of the mount (although this is valuable information that is a must need just in case) but in the precepts of most KF styles you would have messed up long before you get to this point.