Misconceptions of kung fu practitioners

[Junka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junka View Post
As much as like BJJ, you should remember that stuff that may not work against an experienced BJJ'er will work against an 'average' thug and may even be more economical, the guys at Submissions101.com also demonstrate some similar ideas. I really enjoy BJJ and do rate it highly but just keep in mind there are other 'takes' on these moves, although I think you have to be able to roll first before you can really make use of them.

Agreed. But, I'm not sure why someone wouldn't just want to learn the basic BJJ escapes in order to figure their way on the ground? It seems a more efficient way to learn.

That's basically what I was saying when I said you should be able roll first.

[Junka]

I also studied some JJJ and judo so that may be why. BJJ is relatively new and is closely related to these 2 arts.

And it's KOTF(kingoftheforest). I'd love to be KOTH(kingofthehill) but I'm no Hank.

Cool, I'll watch for those typos next time

Actually I noticed that the submission101 guys are also from JJJ. Like you say, they're all related arts in the end. As to the mount escape, I pictured something very different then. I'm always looking at alternatives myself too and if I'm ever in your neck of the woods I'll pop in and take a class.

I was looking at Geoff Thompson's Animal Day earlier and in it he also has some alternative takes on grappling which look really good.

[jubaji]

Still, I think moving from bridge to knee-to-elbow is a more viable and higher percentage escape from mount. (Certainly it's higher percentage than attempting to bite someone's crotch which would only work if you have a neck like a giraffe, or if he's hung like one).

LOL! Exactly.

[kingoftheforest]

Which post are you talking about?

They're the secret one's hidden in the cracker jacks.

[USArmyBJJ]

A personal question for you KOTH? Are you quite a big guy? It's just that what you described for escaping the mount sounds like a big guy muscling off a smaller or similar size guy who doesn't understand maintaining the mount.

From what I can picture of what he is describing, that's what it sounds like. Of course, it's not going to work on a trained grappler. But, I don't think KOTF is really focusing on defeating a trained grappler. He's focused more on defeating your average street guy who probably doesn't have the balance, technique, etc. to be as adept at obtaining the mount.

Still, I think moving from bridge to knee-to-elbow is a more viable and higher percentage escape from mount. (Certainly it's higher percentage than attempting to bite someone's crotch which would only work if you have a neck like a giraffe, or if he's hung like one)

As much as like BJJ, you should remember that stuff that may not work against an experienced BJJ'er will work against an 'average' thug and may even be more economical, the guys at Submissions101.com also demonstrate some similar ideas. I really enjoy BJJ and do rate it highly but just keep in mind there are other 'takes' on these moves, although I think you have to be able to roll first before you can really make use of them.

Agreed. But, I'm not sure why someone wouldn't just want to learn the basic BJJ escapes in order to figure their way on the ground? It seems a more efficient way to learn.

[kingoftheforest]

I'm actually 5' 11" 190lbs. There's a pic of me on this forum somewhere. I'm not a large guy in the least. But my wife who is 5'11' 130lbs ish can you this technique on a 6' 220lbs man with ease. My younger brother is 5'6" 135 and he used in on a MMA practitioner in a friendly match. This guy was easily 20lbs heavier than me.


I have rolled with some BJJ'rs before. We had a couple of MMA guys come to some seminars. We traded techniques. I can't say I personally found anything in BJJ that I wasn't doing with my current grappling.

I also studied some JJJ and judo so that may be why. BJJ is relatively new and is closely related to these 2 arts.

And it's KOTF(kingoftheforest). I'd love to be KOTH(kingofthehill) but I'm no Hank.

[Junka]

Did you really have to quote my entire post to ask that?

I'd have to dig around but basically KOTH said somewhere that people should avoid grappling for SD when possible but train at it and understand it for when they found themselves in that position. The thread then degenerated into flaming.

I like grappling personally and if I'm one and one, would tend to favor it if I can't simply hit and run but even then, I'd try for a take down which left me standing up. I don't say this is the 'best' way or anything, it's my way to suit my body and my personality and my experience levels etc..

I'm not here to flame anyone anyway, I just want a balanced exchange of ideas where I can.

[mellow]

As a smaller guy I can relate to this, my focus would indeed be on avoiding the mount. Once mounted I'd bridge the second his hips sat on me and try to make him base out etc... Elbow to knee escapes are possible but seem to momentarily give him a clear shot at your head while you're busy with the escape so a bit situational IMO. keeping your head up, protecting your face and keeping your elbows in his thighs to prevent a high mount etc... but I ideally I would want to be bridging before this.


Bit late for all that if you're under another guys mount in the street though.

A personal question for you KOTH? Are you quite a big guy? It's just that what you described for escaping the mount sounds like a big guy muscling off a smaller or similar size guy who doesn't understand maintaining the mount. I've read through some of your other posts and you do seem to have some good ideas on SD but this isn't one of them, especially if your teaching smaller students or most women for example. Although I understand you're emphasis is not on defending against a BJJ'er the mount is a pretty intuitive position for the average street thug to want. In the friendliest of ways, I think you should train in some BJJ, I know you won't 'convert' and I'm not suggesting you should but it would enhance one the 'support systems' of your own curriculum.

I rolled a bit with a KF guy who also does BJJ the other day and he did get his thumbs to my eyes several times. When he passed guard he used his elbow on the inside of my thigh and it hurt and was effective. When I had his head locked under his mount he used his thumb on my neck to create enough pain for me to let go. As much as like BJJ, you should remember that stuff that may not work against an experienced BJJ'er will work against an 'average' thug and may even be more economical, the guys at Submissions101.com also demonstrate some similar ideas. I really enjoy BJJ and do rate it highly but just keep in mind there are other 'takes' on these moves, although I think you have to be able to roll first before you can really make use of them.

Peace J.

Which post are you talking about?

[jubaji]

Jubaji,

I don't know what beef you have with KOTF and his camp, but can you let it rest for a day or two?

No. Thanks for asking.

[Junka]

I will say I spend more time practicing not being in this position as opposed to getting out of it. Not to say i don't train to get out of being mounted, but there are plenty of ways to avoid it.

As a smaller guy I can relate to this, my focus would indeed be on avoiding the mount. Once mounted I'd bridge the second his hips sat on me and try to make him base out etc... Elbow to knee escapes are possible but seem to momentarily give him a clear shot at your head while you're busy with the escape so a bit situational IMO. keeping your head up, protecting your face and keeping your elbows in his thighs to prevent a high mount etc... but I ideally I would want to be bridging before this.

Once you are mounted by someone you are now attempting to put a band aide on the situation because you lost the advantage somewhere. In practice you have the opportunity to go back and replay the scenario over and over to see where things went wrong and what you can do to fix the problem.

Bit late for all that if you're under another guys mount in the street though.

A personal question for you KOTH? Are you quite a big guy? It's just that what you described for escaping the mount sounds like a big guy muscling off a smaller or similar size guy who doesn't understand maintaining the mount. I've read through some of your other posts and you do seem to have some good ideas on SD but this isn't one of them, especially if your teaching smaller students or most women for example. Although I understand you're emphasis is not on defending against a BJJ'er the mount is a pretty intuitive position for the average street thug to want. In the friendliest of ways, I think you should train in some BJJ, I know you won't 'convert' and I'm not suggesting you should but it would enhance one the 'support systems' of your own curriculum.

I rolled a bit with a KF guy who also does BJJ the other day and he did get his thumbs to my eyes several times. When he passed guard he used his elbow on the inside of my thigh and it hurt and was effective. When I had his head locked under his mount he used his thumb on my neck to create enough pain for me to let go. As much as like BJJ, you should remember that stuff that may not work against an experienced BJJ'er will work against an 'average' thug and may even be more economical, the guys at Submissions101.com also demonstrate some similar ideas. I really enjoy BJJ and do rate it highly but just keep in mind there are other 'takes' on these moves, although I think you have to be able to roll first before you can really make use of them.

Peace J.

[mellow]

Jubaji,

I don't know what beef you have with KOTF and his camp, but can you let it rest for a day or two?

[jubaji]

Due to the nature of this forum I choose not to post video on it.

Ok tigerclaw.

[Tant01]

yeah, that

I could be wrong (and often am), but I believe that both the hip sweep and electric chair sweep are sweeps from the guard and half-guard respectively - not sweeps from under the mount.

If someone has high mount on you, I don't see the bridging escape that KOTF and I were talking about working. KOTF, what would be the escape in Kung Fu for someone sitting high on the chest? Presumably, you could grab them and pull them in for eye gouging etc (as you spoke of before), but considering that his knees would be under your shoulders, I'm not sure you'd have the leverage to do it.

My bad...

[kingoftheforest]

I can't find any video online of this either.

I'd advise you get a partner and attempt whatever general idea you got from the explanation. if you've spent anytime in BJJ at all the you should have some idea of what I am speaking of.

Run some trial and error and see what you come up with.

Good Day gentlemen.

[USArmyBJJ]

Completely understandable. I didn't mean to post of a video of yourself doing it. I just meant - if you have a video around of someone doing it, I'd love to see it!