Sriking take down

[jubaji]

I take your point. It does depend on the double leg though as there are varieties I've seen which move out to the side.

That moving out to the side is more an issue of how you try to finish the double based on how he is trying to defend and how well you actually made the initial penetration.

[jubaji]

I love the cardboard cutout comment. Because if somebody is moving in and striking you then their hands are NOT going to be at their sides where you can just "grab the wrist".

Their hands won't be "right there" you will be under their arms inside. So you would have to reach up above and behind your head to grab any part of the arm.

........................vid: 0:28

[jubaji]

Also you are hitting with an inward down ward motion not shoving the guys hip to one side.

Don't confuse it for a push it is a strike, hence striking take down.

Not pushing someone over.

Place a pencil on a table and 'hit' (if that word makes you happier) one end of it. What happens to the other end? I didn't make up physics, honest.

[kingoftheforest]

Try that standing the pencil up while it has three different section to it.

One solid object lying down does not form a fair representation of the mechanics of the human body standing up.

Try using a straw like the one's you've been grasping at.

While you're at it learn the difference between a "hit" and a "push".

[jubaji]

The problem we keep coming back to is your lack of experience with grappling. It may be that you are just not equipped to understand what I'm saying. That's not your fault.

[Junka]

Place a pencil on a table and 'hit' (if that word makes you happier) one end of it. What happens to the other end? I didn't make up physics, honest.

No but you are simplifying a dynamic situation with body mechanics involved.

Look it's another take down at the end of the day. You may not like it or want to use it and you don't have to extol it's virtues. There's people reading the thread that will try it, others won't. It is the CMA forum after all and there's no lack of internet resources aimed at MMA and BJJ so I think it's good to see the other side.
I'm not saying I'd practice over a double leg (which can also be countered) but I'd give it a go and see if I liked it.

[kingoftheforest]

No but you are simplifying a dynamic situation with body mechanics involved.

Look it's another take down at the end of the day. You may not like it or want to use it and you don't have to extol it's virtues. There's people reading the thread that will try it, others won't. It is the CMA forum after all and there's no lack of internet resources aimed at MMA and BJJ so I think it's good to see the other side.
I'm not saying I'd practice over a double leg (which can also be countered) but I'd give it a go and see if I liked it.

Another wonderful point.

[jubaji]

No but you are simplifying a dynamic situation with body mechanics involved.

Yes, I'm trying to because some folks just don't seem to understand what I'm saying, and some (not you) are actively trying not to.



Let me say again: NOTHING works all the time and for everyone and every situation, but the technique in the vid that started this thread 'strikes' me as pretty low percentage. I don't think that's such a shocking or threatening thing to say.

[Junka]

See, I don't think that is a high percentage alternative to sprawling because when you are sprawling you are doing so because he is pursuing your center, not just pushing on one side of you.

I never saw it used but it was being talked about by a cop from the point of view of weapons retention. The same cop did practice BJJ and understood wrestling, I'll see if I can find the article. Obviously he needed an alternative that involved being able to maintain control of his side arm and allow him to create distance from the opponent and draw down on him.

[jubaji]

I'm not saying I'd practice over a double leg (which can also be countered) but I'd give it a go and see if I liked it.

Nothing wrong with that.

[kingoftheforest]

Let me say again: NOTHING works all the time and for everyone and every situation, but the technique in the vid that started this thread 'strikes' me as pretty low percentage. I don't think that's such a shocking or threatening thing to say.

Nobody said it works ALL the time for ANY situation. You're seeing things that aren't there.


And this seems to be repeated by you over and over.

It's apparent from the onset that this has offended you some how and you can't get over it. So you just keep repeating yourself. It's rather childish really.


It's only a matter of time before the name calling starts.

[jubaji]

I never saw it used but it was being talked about by a cop from the point of view of weapons retention. The same cop did practice BJJ and understood wrestling, I'll see if I can find the article. Obviously he needed an alternative that involved being able to maintain control of his side arm and allow him to create distance from the opponent and draw down on him.

The good news is that most folks can't really hit a double (or any other shot) to save their lives. A crappy, uncoordinated, half-ass shot can be countered in any number of ways. Also, a sprawl is not limited to what may be taught (once and only once in a context where grappling is not really addressed at all) by folks who aren't really very experienced in grappling themselves. Depending on the shot, the shooter, and the circumstance a successful sprawl will leave at least one hand completely free to do whatever. What you were reading about may very well have been a sprawl and not an alternative.

[jubaji]

It's only a matter of time before the name calling starts.

I have no doubt you will.

[jubaji]

Nobody said it works ALL the time for ANY situation. You're seeing things that aren't there.

it will make anyone fall down.

..............................................

[kingoftheforest]

..............................................

Like any move if properly executed.

But since we are talking about something used for SD let's take a look at your advice for getting a shoot in on an opponent.

If you wait until they are moving, you will not react fast enough. You have to read the set up and get a tactile feel for where your opponent is going before he gets going. Kinda like sprinters get a jump on the field by anticipating the starting gun. The danger, of course, is that you will get suckered by a fake. Experience, experience

So in order to get the shoot you have to be the aggressor. Doesn't sound like SD to me. Sounds like you are initiating the fight. But I'm sure that "you have to move first" is just a misinterpretation on my part.

And if you get caught by a fake, you eat a knee, or are you still claiming you can back out of a shoot if you have to?

Keep shooting, and you will get one. A good rule of thumb is: you take up to 7 shots to get one takedown. If you keep hammering away, you'll get there (provided the other guy doesn't get you first! )

7 shots really. And what is the assailant doing standing there like a cardboard cutout. Doesn't sound like a safe technique to use when your attacker may be armed.

Lead with the head seven times into the attackers center, that'll work.

You might understand grappling on a rules based dueling in the ring sense, but obviously dealing with a real world situation isn't your thing.

-the hairdresser-