Sriking take down

[jubaji]

I was always taught to not give the opponent a shot at your back.

So, about that vid...

[jubaji]

I guess my SD mentality is that bull charging face first into my opponents attack zone, while having my arms occupied with attempting to grab or entangle my opponents legs, leaving my back, head and face unprotected never appealed to me. Charging in face first just goes against all the principles of fighting I have been taught throughout my life.

It's too bad you didn't gain some experience in grappling throughout your life.



Never too late.

[TTEscrima]

I'm curious what your next technique will be for STRIKING takedowns...

Have you seen any of Carl Cestari's Old School DVD's? He demonstrates a number of striking takedowns on local wrestling legend Damian Ross. As well known for his wrestling as he is, Damian is still adamant that combatives are the his go to SD equalizer and that wrestling/sports training should be a last resort for SD.

No one can accuse the Wolfpack of pulling punches or using BS set ups, Carl's in house vids are still some of the best stuff out there...IF you can find them.

[mellow]

What he needs to do is step FORWARD with his left foot, take the guy's back, control the cross wrist and slam his head into the sub-basement.

How do you take the opponent's back when your right foot is pinned to the floor? I've tried to work this but I can't turn my right foot pigeon toed enough to pull it off.

[jubaji]

How do you take the opponent's back when your right foot is pinned to the floor? I've tried to work this but I can't turn my right foot pigeon toed enough to pull it off.

Don't move your right foot at all. Step forward with your left. You won't be exactly behind him but you will be around the corner and in a position to control him, particularly if you take that wrist (I would suggest a cross wrist). As long as you can't move your foot he can't move his, and you only need to get past that near shoulder to get into a control position. The fact that you BOTH have your foot immobile works out well as your step with the left will bring your hips close to his center of gravity as you take control of the advantageous position (provided you have the balance and quickness to do so).

[Tant01]

Yes, actually...

Have you seen any of Carl Cestari's Old School DVD's? He demonstrates a number of striking takedowns on local wrestling legend Damian Ross. As well known for his wrestling as he is, Damian is still adamant that combatives are the his go to SD equalizer and that wrestling/sports training should be a last resort for SD.

No one can accuse the Wolfpack of pulling punches or using BS set ups, Carl's in house vids are still some of the best stuff out there...IF you can find them.

I'm not sure who or what the "wolfpack" is unless you're talking about the beasts Mr. Cestari unleashed on the world.

My only experience with the man was virtual but I understand he was a leading proponent of WW2 combatives...

I've read some of his stuff. Old school is all I know...

[TTEscrima]

I'm not sure who or what the "wolfpack" is unless you're talking about the beasts Mr. Cestari unleashed on the world.

Yeah that Wolfpack.

[kingoftheforest]

How do you take the opponent's back when your right foot is pinned to the floor? I've tried to work this but I can't turn my right foot pigeon toed enough to pull it off.

You can't don't hurt yourself trying to do it other than in the virtual world bro'.

Take into account the fact also that your balance is being taken away by the strike to the hip and you are being driven backwards by the shoulder of the person striking in.

Also take into account the fact that the person standing on your foot is occupying the space you'd need to come forward to take the step with the other foot, and that his foot is "smashing" into yours, not politely stepping on it then saying excuse me.


Notice also that you don't have the person who has his foot on your foot's "back". You are only "kinda sorta" around the corner, but only if you can pull off an impossibility of physics.

Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

[jubaji]

You can't don't hurt yourself trying to do it other than in the virtual world bro'.

Take into account the fact also that your balance is being taken away by the strike to the hip and you are being driven backwards by the shoulder of the person striking in.

Also take into account the fact that the person standing on your foot is occupying the space you'd need to come forward to take the step with the other foot, and that his foot is "smashing" into yours, not politely stepping on it then saying excuse me.


Notice also that you don't have the person who has his foot on your foot's "back". You are only "kinda sorta" around the corner, but only if you can pull off an impossibility of physics.

Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

It's too bad you lack the grappling experience to understand what I'm saying, but don't discourage others from learning. Keeping everyone else as ignorant as you are doesn't make you more experienced.

[Junka]

Don't move your right foot at all. Step forward with your left. You won't be exactly behind him but you will be around the corner and in a position to control him, particularly if you take that wrist (I would suggest a cross wrist). As long as you can't move your foot he can't move his, and you only need to get past that near shoulder to get into a control position. The fact that you BOTH have your foot immobile works out well as your step with the left will bring your hips close to his center of gravity as you take control of the advantageous position (provided you have the balance and quickness to do so).

So he's on your foot and driving forwards. In this short time you're going to step around him, reach down and grab his wrist......? And you thought standing on someones foot may be tricky.

This is basically the 'what if game' that gets played when a technique gets shown slowly for demonstration purposes. I've seen people play the 'what if' game with BJJ instructors too, as I'm sure have you.

Even if you're shooting in for double leg and in the scuffling that unfolds there is a possibility you'll simply land on the guys foot and I see a fair chance of him loosing his balance anyway as you're driving forwards.

Basically you can sit and pull any technique to bits. There is pretty much always a defense and nothing is flawless.

[kingoftheforest]

So he's on your foot and driving forwards. In this short time you're going to step around him, reach down and grab his wrist......? And you thought standing on someones foot may be tricky.

This is basically the 'what if game' that gets played when a technique gets shown slowly for demonstration purposes. I've seen people play the 'what if' game with BJJ instructors too, as I'm sure have you.

Even if you're shooting in for double leg and in the scuffling that unfolds there is a possibility you'll simply land on the guys foot and I see a fair chance of him loosing his balance anyway as you're driving forwards.

Basically you can sit and pull any technique to bits. There is pretty much always a defense and nothing is flawless.

Thats a great point!

[jubaji]

So he's on your foot and driving forwards. In this short time you're going to step around him, reach down and grab his wrist......? And you thought standing on someones foot may be tricky.

I think you are making it more complicated than it is. It's not 1..2..3, the momentum of him moving into you is the same that moves you into him. What happens when you push on one half of something? The other half moves too, doesn't it? From the vid you can see that he turns his body as he steps in, well, if you also turn yours (in the exact direction that he is pushing you anyway) you are just about there. And you don't have to "reach down" to "grab" his wrist because it is right there at the end of the motion shown in the vid. You don't have to grab it at all in the initial reaction. You can simply move your arm over his as you move into his body (notice BOTH of your arms are completely free) and take the wrist in a second motion.

Is what I'm describing guaranteed to work for you all the time? Of course not. As I've said, categorical statements (like "anyone will go down") are never reliable in regards to such things. Is the technique shown in the vid a low percentage move? I believe it is. Someone with body awareness and a level of athleticism is not necessarily going to fall down like a cardboard cutout anytime you touch them. I knew some folks whose ego is much, much greater than their sense or their experience would be offended if I dared to say anything other than "Gosh, that's brilliant! You're so great!" but that's just too damn bad for them.

Even if you're shooting in for double leg and in the scuffling that unfolds there is a possibility you'll simply land on the guys foot and I see a fair chance of him loosing his balance anyway as you're driving forwards.

If you are shooting a double you are putting your center more or less square into his and controlling both legs. Not the same as what we see in the vid at all.

[Junka]

If you are shooting a double you are putting your center more or less square into his and controlling both legs. Not the same as what we see in the vid at all.

I take your point. It does depend on the double leg though as there are varieties I've seen which move out to the side. The explanation for this that I've seen is to avoid being in the other guys guard after the move is completed but.....so many variations to so many things.

I think you are making it more complicated than it is. It's not 1..2..3, the momentum of him moving into you is the same that moves you into him.

I can't really picture it but if I'm reading you right then it's be the same movement that's an alternative to sprawling, like turning out at 45 degrees. I've never actually seen it only read about it and it's hard to get a handle on things simply by reading text, for me it is anyway.

[kingoftheforest]

I love the cardboard cutout comment. Because if somebody is moving in and striking you then their hands are NOT going to be at their sides where you can just "grab the wrist".

Their hands won't be "right there" you will be under their arms inside. So you would have to reach up above and behind your head to grab any part of the arm.

Who punches with one arm hanging at their side?

Also you are hitting with an inward down ward motion not shoving the guys hip to one side.

Don't confuse it for a push it is a strike, hence striking take down.

Not pushing someone over.

Now if your opponent stands their in front of you like a cardboard cut out, then yes you could grab their wrist, but I have yet to see an attack come at anyone with his arms or just one arm hanging limp at his side.

[jubaji]

I take your point. It does depend on the double leg though as there are varieties I've seen which move out to the side. The explanation for this that I've seen is to avoid being in the other guys guard after the move is completed but.....so many variations to so many things.


I can't really picture it but if I'm reading you right then it's be the same movement that's an alternative to sprawling, like turning out at 45 degrees. I've never actually seen it only read about it and it's hard to get a handle on things simply by reading text, for me it is anyway.

See, I don't think that is a high percentage alternative to sprawling because when you are sprawling you are doing so because he is pursuing your center, not just pushing on one side of you.