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  • Technique discussions, pictures and video etc.

    Hello all,

    Lets actually have a serious discussion on techniques. I hope to post some pictures and I hope you will also, of yourselves doing techniques.

    I am Kung Fu teacher and the perspective I will bring comes from that background. I do this to respond to the implications of some that Kung Fu does not have answers for grappling attacks etc. I also want to share with some of my Kung Fu friends techniques to deal with the growing controverys.

    The false claims of some are that Kung Fu has no real answers. But there are many techniques that can be applied in Kung Fu to every situation.

    If you want to just mock and stir up controversy, don't come in here. Go start your own thread. (as if that is going to work, oh well, I can only hope the for the best).

    I have already posted a RNC escape in another thread. I still have to take pictures of many other techniques.

    if you have any suggestions of things you don't believe a Kung Fu practitioner can escape from, post them in here and if i know the technique we can discuss it and post pictures etc.

    You know like, a arm bar, or rear naked choke etc .

    I may as well post the RNC escape in here as well. By the way, I already know that my son has not locked fully into position. But that is usually when you need to escape or sooner. There are many escapes you can do to prevent even getting to this position, but if you are in it, the techniques needs to be done before he really locks on for a few seconds. Also i did not show the crouching forward and shifting of the hips to avoid a person pulling back. I may have to post another picture of that.















    It can also be done almost the same from this position, with slight variations.

    I know my son has his legs crossed and there is attacks i can do to the legs to lock them. this is part of one of the escapes. People do cross their legs like this, though wrongly, to try and get control. I am dealing with the average attack, not so much a professional fighter. the odds of meting a pro fighter in the street are not as high as a beginner. But I can post pics of the same technique done with the legs not crossed.



    I will say, that yes, the best escape from these attack is before the lock has been tightened and the attacker begins to squeeze. but even if he just starts to lock on, you can escape from my experience that is.

    There are other RNC escapes, I may post some of them also. often a combination of techniques needs to be used for certain situations. You may need to shift the hips to the side and strike the groin or elbow the solar plexes, or stomp the instep, to allow a distraction. Hopefully that will cause him to loosen his grip and then all the factors of the move can be done quickly. There are four aspects to remember in this technique, and they all happen at one time.

    1. Crouch and shift the hips to the side

    2. Press the elbow up and out a an angle

    3. Lock the hand behind the head with a tiger claw or eagle claw grip. Chin na type technique.

    4. Tuck the head as you quickly drop down and to the side while pressing up and out and pulling the other hand up and forward.

    All these aspects need to be done at once.

    And, yes I know how to do a proper Rear naked choke escape. I could post pictures of that if I need to.

    Also, here is a video clip I found just a while ago, where the person seems to do the technique very similar to me, although he doesn't crouch down and shift to the side as i was explaining.


  • #2
    Regarding the RNC......

    Have you tried this against someone who is resisting? It appears that it would work if the person is standing still for you but what about some one who is'nt standing in place? You would have to be VERY quick to do this in my opinion. How do you do it if the person is dragging/pulling you backwards and your off balance?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JadeDragon View Post
      Regarding the RNC......

      Have you tried this against someone who is resisting? It appears that it would work if the person is standing still for you but what about some one who is'nt standing in place? You would have to be VERY quick to do this in my opinion. How do you do it if the person is dragging/pulling you backwards and your off balance?
      Yes I have against resitsance and it works, An application of this from the ground also works. I did this also with full resistance.

      If they start to pull you back, you need to crouch down slightly as soon as their arm goes around you and shift the hips to the side this shifting allows you to offset the direction, then you can strike the groin or solarplexes very quickly as you immediatley do the rest of the technique. I think I am going to need pictures for that one.

      By the way I know that no techniques is perfect and there are always escapes and a professional fighter may learn how to redirect the force of the up and out ward elbow push etc. But this is one option for a otherwise very dangerous situation.

      The thing that troubles me is when some say there is absolutely no escape from this. To me they have nothing to offer when they claim that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Bruce,

        Great to see you doing the same thing here.

        Where do you teach as I would love to come visit and cross hands with you and see how my Baguazhang goes against your material.

        Would you do that?

        I would love to see how you could do this against someone who is going to react to what you are doing and change it up.

        Again, would love to come up and see what you would do in person versus all this talking which is not true martial arts training.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bruce,

          Seeing you claim that certain techniques works brings up the valid question of your lineage and experience.

          How long have you trained with Brian Leishman and Sterling Lin?

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is the last response I posted to you on the OTHER board where you made this request. It explains why your escape is not particularly useful.

            If your shoulders are behind your hips, then you can not lean forward. End of discussion. You must first get your shoulders back under your hips. That takes time while your opponent is choking you unconscious.


            If his arms are already in place and locked then the window of opportunity for escape has essentially passed. You will not escape unless your opponent makes a HORRIBLE mistake. Sure, 1 time out of 1000 you might pull something off and get out, but your best time to escape has already long passed. At this point try any desperation insanity you can think of, flail at his groin, offer him anal, whatever you think will get him to let go. Because barring some sort of miracle you are going to sleep.



            When I have been in this situation I attempt to keep my chin tucked and grab the choking arm and pull down with steady pressure to try to keep enough space to survive. I then try to turn into my opponent to relieve the pressure further. My real hope is that the person will not realize I am not being completely choked and his arms will get tired or he will relax to adjust the position and give me a chance to make more space. It rarely works. The simple, verifiable fact is that once the person has the choke completely locked in then your chances of escape are very very very very low. This doesn't mean give up, but it does mean you should be predicating your defense on stopping the attack at a much earlier stage. For most things like this I have 3-4 escapes that I use. 1 or 2 from very early in the attack, for instance when the person first takes my back my immediate defense is to stop him from getting hooks in and work to turn back into him and regain guard. If he gets the hooks in then my next defense is to stop him from getting an arm around my neck, getting a 2 on 1 grip and using the escape I described earlier. If he gets 1 arm around my neck my next defense is to prevent him from getting the second arm behind my head and attempt to get a 2 on 1 grip on THAT arm. All the while I am looking for opportunities to remove his hooks and turn into him, regain guard, roll him, etc...
            If ALL of those fail and he gets both arms locked in securely then I might try 1 or 2 other things, including trying to push the arm up over my head, but they VERY RARELY work at that point.



            You have clearly never been RNCed by anyone who has any idea what they are doing. I weigh 140lbs. If I get my arms locked I can keep them locked onto guys who are far far stronger than you will ever dream of being. I will be squeezing full on for the entire time that you are trying this stuff, if it doesn't work within 5 seconds, you are out.

            Bottom line, your escape is what we call Low Percentage. Keep it in the arsenal, practice it occasionally, when all else fails, give it a try, but don't rely on it. Learn some of the real escapes, the ones that happen much earlier in the process and drill those 10 times as often as you drill the low percentage desperation escapes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Bruce?

              Can I come visit you and see how you would fair against a trained opponent versus a child?

              Bruce?

              Why are you not answering direct questions posed to you?

              Comment


              • #8
                Because Dugas hing-dai, that would mean touching somebody who isn't a teenager, posing for pictures poorly or the worst case scenario, somebody who actually knows what the hell is going on.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I know, it would mean he would have to work at something than playing against someone who is half his weight/strength etc...

                  I do not think he knows the real meaning behind Kung Fu.

                  Bruce,

                  can I come cross hands and see your hand?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kintanon View Post
                    Here is the last response I posted to you on the OTHER board where you made this request. It explains why your escape is not particularly useful.

                    If your shoulders are behind your hips, then you can not lean forward. End of discussion. You must first get your shoulders back under your hips. That takes time while your opponent is choking you unconscious.


                    If his arms are already in place and locked then the window of opportunity for escape has essentially passed. You will not escape unless your opponent makes a HORRIBLE mistake. Sure, 1 time out of 1000 you might pull something off and get out, but your best time to escape has already long passed. At this point try any desperation insanity you can think of, flail at his groin, offer him anal, whatever you think will get him to let go. Because barring some sort of miracle you are going to sleep.



                    When I have been in this situation I attempt to keep my chin tucked and grab the choking arm and pull down with steady pressure to try to keep enough space to survive. I then try to turn into my opponent to relieve the pressure further. My real hope is that the person will not realize I am not being completely choked and his arms will get tired or he will relax to adjust the position and give me a chance to make more space. It rarely works. The simple, verifiable fact is that once the person has the choke completely locked in then your chances of escape are very very very very low. This doesn't mean give up, but it does mean you should be predicating your defense on stopping the attack at a much earlier stage. For most things like this I have 3-4 escapes that I use. 1 or 2 from very early in the attack, for instance when the person first takes my back my immediate defense is to stop him from getting hooks in and work to turn back into him and regain guard. If he gets the hooks in then my next defense is to stop him from getting an arm around my neck, getting a 2 on 1 grip and using the escape I described earlier. If he gets 1 arm around my neck my next defense is to prevent him from getting the second arm behind my head and attempt to get a 2 on 1 grip on THAT arm. All the while I am looking for opportunities to remove his hooks and turn into him, regain guard, roll him, etc...
                    If ALL of those fail and he gets both arms locked in securely then I might try 1 or 2 other things, including trying to push the arm up over my head, but they VERY RARELY work at that point.



                    You have clearly never been RNCed by anyone who has any idea what they are doing. I weigh 140lbs. If I get my arms locked I can keep them locked onto guys who are far far stronger than you will ever dream of being. I will be squeezing full on for the entire time that you are trying this stuff, if it doesn't work within 5 seconds, you are out.

                    Bottom line, your escape is what we call Low Percentage. Keep it in the arsenal, practice it occasionally, when all else fails, give it a try, but don't rely on it. Learn some of the real escapes, the ones that happen much earlier in the process and drill those 10 times as often as you drill the low percentage desperation escapes.
                    ..........................















                    I like this guy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey guys, at least he's trying to give you serious pictures of what he is talking about. I mean I think he truely believes what he is saying will work. It does seem like an aweful lot of stuff you have to do to pull the technique off correctly. I think you would get choked out first before you could do it. Just my thought on it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The mere fact that he believes it doesn't make it true, or useful. And if he is an instructor, as he claims, and is teaching this is a defense against the RNC then someone might get injured because it doesn't work as advertised.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JadeDragon View Post
                          Hey guys, at least he's trying to give you serious pictures of what he is talking about. I mean I think he truely believes what he is saying will work. It does seem like an aweful lot of stuff you have to do to pull the technique off correctly. I think you would get choked out first before you could do it. Just my thought on it.
                          Not really... a serious picture would involve somebody who truly knows how to apply a RNC, standing or grounded.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kintanon View Post
                            Bottom line, your escape is what we call Low Percentage. Keep it in the arsenal, practice it occasionally, when all else fails, give it a try, but don't rely on it. Learn some of the real escapes, the ones that happen much earlier in the process and drill those 10 times as often as you drill the low percentage desperation escapes.
                            You are wrong again.

                            By the way what techniques do you have for a person that has just locked in and has not yet started to squeeze tight?

                            Do you have any?

                            If not then you have noting to offer here.

                            I know there are so many different defenses a person can do, just before the lock comes. But what if they already have their arms around the neck?

                            Nothing?

                            There are other escapes as well as this one. But this one is good. I know that even this techniques would work best just before the person gets his arms around and locked. Also surprise is a key element here. and distraction.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by clfsean View Post
                              Not really... a serious picture would involve somebody who truly knows how to apply a RNC, standing or grounded.
                              I said he is trying to be serious. I didn't say he was. Trying and actually being is 2 different things.

                              Comment

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