why I left kungfu

[pstevens]

The shanshou uses:

- kick to move in (close distance),
- punch to build bridge (arms contact),
- bridge to create arm wrapping (leading arm control), and
- arm wrapping to execute the throw.

It's pure CMA approach and no modern concept in that. The integraion of kick, punch, lock, and throw (except the ground fight) was always treated as the ultimate goal of all CMA practioners.

The ring aspect of sanshou was developed as a direct response to Muay Thai. As a result, techniques of Muay Thai were thoroughly studied and Muay Thai instructors have been going to China ever since. More importantly, the "live" sparring aspect has been incorporated; something that has been missing from TCMAs for a very long time.

Qoute:

"One of the reasons why 'Sanshou' in Sport Wushu exist as it is today is due to the many defeats by Kung Fu fighters at the hands of Thai boxers in the past few decades. Sanshou today is virtually a watered down version of amateur Muay Thai. This shows an unwilling admittance of the superiority of Muay Thai techniques & the importance of contact sparring."

index6d

[csc]

the "live" sparring aspect has been incorporated; something that has been missing from TCMAs for a very long time.

Life "sparring" may be missing in CMA training for a long time, but life "wrestling" has existed in China since the Yellow Emperior period. The same argument can also be used to MT as "the live wrestling aspect has been missing from MT for a very long time".

[pstevens]

The same argument can also be used to MT as "the live wrestling aspect has been missing from MT for a very long time".

True... But we're not talking about MT here. We're addressing the inadequacies of CMA, which is NOT sanshou nor is it wrestling. The wrestling in CMA pales in comparison to any other form of wrestling, in any case.

[csc]

The problem of CMA is it has been envolved into many different directions.

- Taiji has been envolved into "health" only.
- Modern Wushu has been envolved into "performance and dancing" only.
- Shuai Chiao in China still remains it's "sport" only format.
- Shuai Chiao in US has been envolved into Chan Chiao (combat SC - similiar to Shanshou).

I have met many Taiji people in California. None of them are interesting in combat. The "inadequacies" of CMA is exactly why they are interesting in Taiji. Sometime I just feel that we are the minority and they are the majority.

[pstevens]

The problem of CMA is it has been envolved into many different directions.

- Taiji has been envolved into "health" only.
- Modern Wushu has been envolved into "performance and dancing" only.
- Shuai Chiao in China still remains it's "sport" only format.
- Shuai Chiao in US has been envolved into Chan Chiao (combat SC - similiar to Shanshou).

I have met many Taiji people in California. None of them are interesting in combat. The "inadequacies" of CMA is exactly why they are interesting in Taiji. Sometime I just feel that we are the minority and they are the majority.

Well, at least you're open-minded and honest. The truth of the martial arts is that it's subjective to what you want it to be.

The original poster decided that kung-fu didn't meet his demands for a "fighting" art. However, as you've stated, someone might say they enjoy kung-fu (Taiji) for health and exercise. I completely sympathize and respect that. Where I have a problem or don't agree is when someone tries to convince others that something like Taiji push-hands can be used to win a UFC title or ward off 10 attackers.

As a matter of fact, regardless of whether Sanshou is a "watered" MT, it has come into its own and now rivals MT. So good for sanshou... My point being, just do what makes you happy, but be honest with yourself. Don't practice Taiji forms all day and think you can beat up Randy Couture.

[csc]

Taiji push-hands can be used to win a UFC title or ward off 10 attackers.

The problem for Taiji PH is it may have some starting (some may say that the starting may not even be good enough because lacking the gape closing) but it has no ending. Pushing someone away is worse than throwing someone down. The job is not finish yet. At least to throw someone down, you may have a chance to hurt him and end the fight there. To push someone back may just give him a chance to go to his car and grab a gun from his glove compartment and come back to shot you. Pushing your enemy back completely violents the basic rule of "keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer."

[mellow]

Where I have a problem or don't agree is when someone tries to convince others that something like Taiji push-hands can be used to win a UFC title or ward off 10 attackers.

????????????
That would be like saying "I'm going to beat up alot of people using a bench press"
Push hands is merely a senstivity drill. . . .

[mellow]

Don't practice Taiji forms all day and think you can beat up Randy Couture.

Totally in agreement here. Without learning applications and then pressure testing it's just dancing.

[csc]

A guy in Taiwan spent 6 months before his 1st tournament doing nothing but punching a coconut that tied with 2 ropes on each sides and between 2 trees. In that tournament, nobody could escape his head chassing. In that 6 months, he had developed:

- fast footwork,
- good eyes sight,
- accuracy punching,
- fast punching speed, and
- tough hand condition.

If all CMA guys train like that guy, we may not have this discussion as we have here.

[mellow]

Maybe, but you will have a few on this site who will say "Well, that's not Kung Fu because Kung Fu is flowery and ineffective."

[jubaji]

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and not believe that story

[mellow]

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and not believe that story

Well, let's hear your experience with "Kung Fu".

[csc]

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and not believe that story

- I swear to God that I'm telling the truth but the truth.
- I don't give a dam whether you believe it or not.

Pick up whatever the answer that you prefer.

[jubaji]

- I swear to God that I'm telling the truth but the truth.
- I don't give a dam whether you believe it or not.

Pick up whatever the answer that you prefer.

Thanks, I'll go with #2.

[jubaji]

Well, let's hear your experience with "Kung Fu".

A) That wasn't 'his' experience

B) Be more specific