San Shou

[jubaji]

Yeah? So can you do finger pull ups?

"focused and practical"

[kingoftheforest]

Yeah? So can you do finger pull ups?



There are outright EVIL humans walking the streets who don't really care what your sport is... They don't care if you're big or small, young or old, fit or fat...

When someone holds so LITTLE value for life (any kind) they are dangerous beasts.

I want to mention a little old lady... A grandmother who is doing LIFE in prison for some cold blooded murder. She was 62 when she shot her daughter's BF.

She may never have harmed a living creature but her mindset was revenge.

Dangerous people come in ALL forms.

Sorry for the off topic rant.

Good point. I don't think it was anymore off topic than some of the stuff in this thread.

Mind you the insanity involved in thinking people who train more traditional MA's kick trees and kill animals is ludicrous.

Those types of training are destructive to the practitioners body. Some people are just prone to hyperbole is all.

There are safer and more effective ways to condition the body than those ludicrously mentioned.


Perhaps the conditioning of some sports is more destructive. Look atr pro football player in their 40's and 50's.

They'll be the first to tell you about joint pain and chronic problems with their knees and backs.

Same with pro-wrestlers who are up in years. All the one's I have trained with and personally know who are up in years have back and knee problems from hell.

Doctors have contributed it to the constant lifting and being slammed to the ground.

I have injuries from High school football and wrestling that still flair up from time to time these days.

This is all personal experience and not just opinion, any type of contact sport or MA you take you should find people who participated for several years and ask them about how their body feels.

[Tant01]

On killing...

Conditioning the body is something that 'sport' folks do to a far greater degree than most others, and in a more focused and practical way too. Who has the more useful tool, someone who spent years kicking trees JUST to make his shins hard or someone who got hard shins from years of MT training and fighting?

I don't believe that chopping down trees or killing animals makes anyone more likely to kill another human being or indicates a greater willingness to do so.

Yeah? So can you do finger pull ups?



There are outright EVIL humans walking the streets who don't really care what your sport is... They don't care if you're big or small, young or old, fit or fat...

When someone holds so LITTLE value for life (any kind) they are dangerous beasts.

I want to mention a little old lady... A grandmother who is doing LIFE in prison for some cold blooded murder. She was 62 when she shot her daughter's BF.

She may never have harmed a living creature but her mindset was revenge.

Dangerous people come in ALL forms.

Sorry for the off topic rant.

[PandaMan]

I agree with Jubaji. Also like the vids. Interesting post.

[jubaji]

If you read SOCNET you saw the guy last week who tried to claim his HS/college wrestling prepared him for adrenalin dump he would face in combat and simple SD

Combat in terms of fighting in a war? I doubt much would really prepare him for that but that.


SD? Someone who has experienced another person actually getting physically violent with them and trying to dominate them is a hell of a lot closer to that than someone who hasn't. And importantly, someone who has been involved in physically violent sports all their life is very, very likely to have actually been in a number of actual 'street' situations in their life vs someone who has only ever paid monthly dues to learn to avoid such things.

Someone who has no SD seminar t-shirts and has never been involved in a sport art but has been in a lot of scraps in the street would surely be someone worth taking cautiously as well.

[jubaji]

Some people like to believe they can prepare themselves for survival through playing sports.

And some like to think they can do it by playing 'make-believe'

[jubaji]

I must have smashed my shins and palms and elbows and knees... Okay, my head too. (Actual brain damage is not really my point...) I wore the bark off living trees and killed MANY OTHER creatures with my tools of choice. Long guns for huntiung, pistols and knives (and hammers and my bare hands) for domestic beasts or dispatching mortally wounded pets, etc.

Killing is killing... I'm sure you've read how "serial killers" start with cruelty toward animals....

Once you've conditioned your conscious to the sanguinary business of DOING these traumatic things... SPORT and ART hold little value. CONDITIONING your body parts is seriously OLD school stuff that many may scoff ...

Conditioning the body is something that 'sport' folks do to a far greater degree than most others, and in a more focused and practical way too. Who has the more useful tool, someone who spent years kicking trees JUST to make his shins hard or someone who got hard shins from years of MT training and fighting?

I don't believe that chopping down trees or killing animals makes anyone more likely to kill another human being or indicates a greater willingness to do so.

[TTEscrima]

Can be trained in unorthadox methods.

I must have smashed my shins and palms and elbows and knees... Okay, my head too. (Actual brain damage is not really my point...) I wore the bark off living trees and killed MANY OTHER creatures with my tools of choice. Long guns for huntiung, pistols and knives (and hammers and my bare hands) for domestic beasts or dispatching mortally wounded pets, etc.

Killing is killing... I'm sure you've read how "serial killers" start with cruelty toward animals....

Once you've conditioned your conscious to the sanguinary business of DOING these traumatic things... SPORT and ART hold little value. CONDITIONING your body parts is seriously OLD school stuff that many may scoff but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see how a calous or deadened nerves can help one inflict or absorb horific trauma...

Who here can do finger pull ups?




That is all...

EXCELLENT post!! Indeed, IMO all any martial art is at its core is conditioning the mind and body for specific tasks.

Some people like to believe they can prepare themselves for survival through playing sports, but a game is a game, survival is never a game.

If sports trained people for SD we wouldn't have Martial arts and survival training, instead of H2H combat the military would have you play football and rugby...and wrestling and boxing would be a part of the program, they aren't because they were proven inferior in the 40's when the military tried them in the V program.

It was agreed they were better than nothing for preparing children to transition to adulthood and the rigors of combat conditioning but it was also agreed it was only beneficial for kids, adults needed to move on to training more suitable to increasing their abilities to fight.

If you read SOCNET you saw the guy last week who tried to claim his HS/college wrestling prepared him for adrenalin dump he would face in combat and simple SD, to say he was laughed off the site by the SF operators is an understatement.

[Tant01]

yank yourself

It seems we always come back to this apparently unresolvable problem. People want to do (or believe they would be able to do) more than 'sports' would likely make possible, but those are just the things that cannot actually be trained (as opposed to simulated in some way).

And so the bickering goes on forever...

Can be trained in unorthadox methods.

I must have smashed my shins and palms and elbows and knees... Okay, my head too. (Actual brain damage is not really my point...) I wore the bark off living trees and killed MANY OTHER creatures with my tools of choice. Long guns for huntiung, pistols and knives (and hammers and my bare hands) for domestic beasts or dispatching mortally wounded pets, etc.

Killing is killing... I'm sure you've read how "serial killers" start with cruelty toward animals....

Once you've conditioned your conscious to the sanguinary business of DOING these traumatic things... SPORT and ART hold little value. CONDITIONING your body parts is seriously OLD school stuff that many may scoff but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see how a calous or deadened nerves can help one inflict or absorb horific trauma...

Who here can do finger pull ups?




That is all...

[jubaji]

Its kind of hard to put an art like silat or kali into actual practice, atleast from a legal perspective, unless you're in a situation where you are fighting for your life.

Drills are the only way to do it so that the practitioner can perfect his technique and timing. There are some alternative methods, like wearing padded suits that the dog brothers wear, but they still get beat up pretty bad - but its worth it to test those skills like that.

How do you practice with weapons, vital striking and finishing moves as a self defense art?

I think practicing combat sports gives you the platform and attributes to be in a fight, but you fight the way you train...so the only way to integrate some self defense is from drills, drills and more drills - getting creative with them so that you can make them more realistic.

It seems we always come back to this apparently unresolvable problem. People want to do (or believe they would be able to do) more than 'sports' would likely make possible, but those are just the things that cannot actually be trained (as opposed to simulated in some way).

And so the bickering goes on forever...

[jubaji]

I think people would like to see certain arts become more popular, but its probably better that they aren't.

Interesting question. Why better?

[Tom Yum]

Fortunately, most SD guys never actually put into practice what they 'train' so you should be ok for a while.

Its kind of hard to put an art like silat or kali into actual practice, atleast from a legal perspective, unless you're in a situation where you are fighting for your life.

Drills are the only way to do it so that the practitioner can perfect his technique and timing. There are some alternative methods, like wearing padded suits that the dog brothers wear, but they still get beat up pretty bad - but its worth it to test those skills like that.

How do you practice with weapons, vital striking and finishing moves as a self defense art?

I think practicing combat sports gives you the platform and attributes to be in a fight, but you fight the way you train...so the only way to integrate some self defense is from drills, drills and more drills - getting creative with them so that you can make them more realistic.

I probably don't want to grapple or fight from the ground against multiple opponents, unless I absolutely have to.

[Tom Yum]

What a good idea! So, would you agree that it is hard for SC to gain in popularity if there aren't more opportunities for people to learn about and train in it?

I think people would like to see certain arts become more popular, but its probably better that they aren't. Has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the art - I still appreciate a good, effective martial art style that isn't always about the number of practitioners or commercialization.

[Tom Yum]

All smashing and crashing into your opponent is part of the strike that sets up the throw. The basic tenet of SC is that the moment you touch your opponent you should steal his root. There are specific stepping patterns (steal stepping) and such that help but mostly like any other system body feel is the key to knowing (and throwing) your opponent.

The majority of the throws we use don't require you to grab onto the opponent, instead they rely on SC tenets of lower body control through stepping or entangling the legs and upper body control usually supplied by the diagonal strike.

I was taught SC to supplement the JJJ and Combat judo techniques because they provide different ways to down an opponent when your hands are occupied. Its also rare thus the average person has no idea whats happening to them or how to counter it. It's become hugely popular with the Marine Recon units of late.

I tried to pos rep, but the computer won't let me.

[jubaji]

Attention: Not bashing cma

discussing CMA's

What a good idea! So, would you agree that it is hard for SC to gain in popularity if there aren't more opportunities for people to learn about and train in it?