Ngo Cho Kun

[Declan]

My last word

All:

LCK's theory about the Ngo Cho lineage is interesting. I hadn't considered that, although I had noticed from Alexander L. Co's book that the Beng Kiam Ngo Cho is both very similar and very different to the Wuzu that I have been taught.

Anyway, my only reason for raising this whole issue was academic interest. As a trained historian, I was simply responding to what seemed to be a historical misunderstanding and I could only argue by presenting what limited evidence I had (which seemed convincing to me).

I hope my message on the subject neither offended nor bored anyone, least of all Yentao.

Robo is right, of course, it is more important to train than to talk and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who invented it as long as it's good. Who cares nowadays about who invented the wheel? We're just glad we have wheels!

Anyway, best wishes to you all.

Regards,

Declan

[Declan]

On Wing Chun

Christian:

I have no personal experience of Wing Chun, so please take my earlier comments in that light.

I don't doubt that whoever prevails in a fight or a sparring match is more to do with the individual than the art. No art is a magic cloak that protects the wearer from harm.

On the subject of sensitivity training in Wuzu, that cannot be explained in writing, only demonstrated.

All the best,

Declan

[Harimau]

Hi Christian,

No 'fraid not, although there are some Sumatran Harimau practitioners in Malaysia (man, they have some WIERD techniques ). There are various other "Harimau" styles here (popular name!), which look quite different from the Sumatran "groundfighting" version. I practice a Javanese style. Somewhat similar to silat serak in appearance, a lot of use of the triangle in parrying, angular footwork, arm destructions, foot pins etc.

I better stop talking about silat before they move us back to the Filipino martial arts forum! It would be nice however to exchange notes sometime about Filipino/Malaysian silat.

Salamat pok (hope I spelt that right)

Harimau

[krys]

I better stop talking about silat before they move us back to the Filipino martial arts forum! It would be nice however to exchange notes sometime about Filipino/Malaysian silat.

DEAR MODERATOR A SILAT FORUM COULD BE VERY USEFULL THANKS,....


You are welcome harimau, I used to practice myself javanese Setia Hati Terrare before learning filipino Silat.....

Just one last question on silat as you live in Malaysia , are you familiar with the Supring and Bangkoy martial arts?

These systems are from Sabah but are also practiced in the southern Philippines, my GM told me they are very effective and will teach them to me one day but I have little information on them right now (well he made me feel the effects of Supring counterattacks.....).

Many thanks,

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
Christian.

[Harimau]

Originally posted by krys
Just one last question on silat as you live in Malaysia , are you familiar with the Supring and Bangkoy martial arts?

Ah, sorry, no, Christian. That's interesting to know. I have always been curious about arts native to that border region. Would you happen to know if they are practiced by Kadazan-Dusun or other cultural groups? Sabah is a very different world from West Malaysia - different languages, religions etc.

Sarawak does have a Malay/Melanau art called "Spring Dua Belas" (so called because it has 12 core hand forms), but I understand this may be Minangkabau in origin and is probably not connected to "Supring". There is a lot of martial knowledge in East Malaysia which is undocumented, as there are many different cultures and tribal groups. What we need is another Donn Draeger!

Best regards,

Harimau

[yentao]

Hi Robo,

I started this thread with reasons.

To contact different people who practice Ngo Cho Kun.

To discuss it and to give others idea about the art.

To preserve the Chua Giok Beng's lineage.

Which I feel successful by meeting LCK, Pitbull, Aharto, and Kenneth. Which I consider my sihings under Chua's lineage.

To honor the sijo or founder of a martial art is a Chinese tradition and culture. In fact every NCK school under Chua Giok Beng lineage has an altar for the Sijo. To us Chinese we honor our shizu just the way Declan honors master Chee.

For me, posting here are one of my hobbies especially after training.

Now I don't think posting here and other sites is a waste of time. But actually it helped me know more about NCK.

Anyway about my recent posts sorry if some of you are offended but I don't really mean it.

Only human,

yentao

[yentao]

Hi Pitbull welcome.

About forms. I'm trying to master Se Mun Pa Kat and Hong Be Chien. In Se Mun PK I'm trying to jump and land quickly. Any ideas?

[yentao]

Hi Pitbull welcome.

About forms. I'm trying to master Se Mun Pa Kat and Hong Be Chien. In Se Mun PK I'm trying to jump and land quickly. Any ideas? Tien Te Lin is nice also helps in Ngo Ki training.

[Pitbullz]

try putting a monoblock chair than try jumping over it...song sui/pa kak style...land on ur toes and twist ur lover body in mid air...be 'light'....cant explain here what i want to say...

when i jump...i always land heavy...bec im a heavy person for my wgt...

[yentao]

I know there was a technique that can help the vibration in the landing less. Quite hard to explain too.

[krys]

Hello Harimau....


I am also very curious about martial arts in Sabah....
Actually first time I heard of Ngo Cho Kun was from a malaysian chinese who introduced me to some interesting forms of training...

There seem to be a lot of martial arts knowledge there.....

My GM was worked in Sabah for 6 years and was able to learn two forms of Supring from a local GM (saddly this old man died already), and also Bangkoy from one of his ennemies after they fought.
One of his Supring styles is more on striking (usually knuckle, palm, slap...+stomping&special kicking), the other is throwing-locking oriented....

Another chinese malaysian told me of a third style of Supring (from Tawau?) , whith low sweeping motions, inspired by the movements of a buwaya (crocodile)...

MY GM told me Supring was developped by the five tribes (I don't know the name) of a local ethnic group.... there should be five systems of Supring.

There is also a empty handed chinese martial art in Sabah called escrima (nothing to do with the filipino one) but he was not able to learn it...

I hope to go to Sabah one day for a long period in order to learn myself....


All the best,
Christian.

[Harimau]

Originally posted by yentao
I started this thread with reasons.

... To discuss it and to give others idea about the art.

Yentao, IMHO you and the other NCK people are doing a good job in educating us non-NCK folk about your art, so please continue.

With regard to your question to Pitbullz - just curious, my colleague told me he used to train by doing standing jumps up to and down from low walls. Sounds a bit like plyometric jumps for explosive strength. Is this standard NCK training?

Salamat.
Harimau

[Harimau]

Originally posted by krys
MY GM told me Supring was developped by the five tribes (I don't know the name) of a local ethnic group.... there should be five systems of Supring.

Hi Christian, five tribes sounds like Kadazan-Dusun all right. In fact, thinking about it, there may be a connection between Spring Dua Belas and "Supring", as otherwise I can't understand why they would use the word "Spring", since it is not a Malay word. I am going to Sabah next week, and will try to poke around and find out some more. If I find out anything interesting, will e-mail you. To be fair to Yentao, better not hijack his NCK thread!

Best regards,

Harimau

[yentao]

Originally posted by Harimau


Yentao, IMHO you and the other NCK people are doing a good job in educating us non-NCK folk about your art, so please continue.

With regard to your question to Pitbullz - just curious, my colleague told me he used to train by doing standing jumps up to and down from low walls. Sounds a bit like plyometric jumps for explosive strength. Is this standard NCK training?

Salamat.
Harimau

Where did your colleague studied under? plyometric or polymetric jumps? You mean different height? Standard? I don't think so but it will help. I do some jumping to some forms. But before that I train and stretch my limbs first.

[samchien76]

HO YANG and Chuo giok beng and 5 survivor of shaolin

Does anyone have more information about Hoyang(Chuo giok beng teacher)? Like if he was the monk of shaolin temple, what was his rank? Is chuo giok beng his only student? How many forms actually Hoyang taught chuo giok beng?

According to the alexander co`s book, ngo cho kun is also related to 5 survior of shaolin during the holocoust?

The history said that the shaolin was destroyed in mid 17 century, so how was ho yang related to the shaolin monks(i supposed some of those monks were hoyang`s teacher)...

and the very interesing part is
If Ho yang was related to the five survivor of the Honan-Fujian shaolin then He must be related or have some connection with these kungfu style;Hunggar,White tiger,WingChunKuen,18 Taoist palm.Since those 5 survivors were Chee Sin(Sifu Hung shi kwan who is the founder of Hunggar),Ngo Mui(Simu of Yim wing chun who is the founder of wingchun),Bak mei(the founder of bak mei/white eyebrow kungfu which was used by most of ching soldier), and Fong Doe Duk(Sifu of Doo tin yin who is the founder/practicioner of white tiger kungfu/bak fu mai). and mew hin.This 5 survivors were later worshipped by the hung men/triad society according to the martial art historians....

and according to our lineage from Lo ban teng, the information about the 5 ancestor I received was:
1.QING CHAO HE SHANG (CAI SHANG TE)
2.QING FANG HE SHANG (FANG TA HONG)
3.QING SHE HE SHANG (MA ZHAO XING)
4.QING SHENG HE SHANG (LI SE KAI)
5. QING SHE HE SHANG (WU DE DI)

Does anyone know any information to clarify my confusion?


Best regards