Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[csc]

Tai Chi as far as I am concerned is just an art for practicing chi and for learning to relax, that's why it is very good and healthy for young and elderly people.

Who here agrees ?

Taiji has many good moves but unfortunately those moves are "not complete". For example: If you add

- "leg scoop" in Peng (ward off),
- "leg spring" in Lu (pull back),
- "Leg bite" in Gi (press forward),
- "Inner leg hook" in An (push),
- "leg sweep" in cloud hand,
- "leg hook" in brush knee,
- "outer leg hook" in diagonal fly,
- ...

then the move will be much more effective.

[Junka]

Most likely the entire Zhang San Feng story was designed to hide the origins of Yang style because if people knew both Yang and Chen styles were ripoffs of a Shaolin form they wouldn't seek out the Yangs and Chens to learn a form that had essentially only been changed so they could protect their rice bowls.

The more things change, the more they stay the same

[Ben Grimm]

That doesn't surprise me.

[TTEscrima]

According to some legends, Zhang San Feng created Taijiquan after leaving the Shaolin temple. Of course, we can't verify its credibility, but anyway........

The movements of Chen Style and Yang style can both be found movement for movement in documented Shaolin forms that existed prior to Chen Village's variations and of course prior to the system the Yangs are known for.

If you're familiar with the core Shaolin forms and Chen style or Yang Style I can cite some examples you can compare for yourself. In a nutshell though they can all be traced back to Tong Bei. Most likely the entire Zhang San Feng story was designed to hide the origins of Yang style because if people knew both Yang and Chen styles were ripoffs of a Shaolin form they wouldn't seek out the Yangs and Chens to learn a form that had essentially only been changed so they could protect their rice bowls.

[Ben Grimm]

According to some legends, Zhang San Feng created Taijiquan after leaving the Shaolin temple. Of course, we can't verify its credibility, but anyway........

[TTEscrima]

they say tai chi was the basic foundation style of all shaolin monks who would go on to study a style that suited them but would always be practicing tai chi with it... i don't know how much truth there is in this

None, Tai Chi came into existence looooong after Shaolin was founded and their forms had been documented. Shaolin is well known for following a Hard to Soft training regimen.

[Birmingham]

they say tai chi was the basic foundation style of all shaolin monks who would go on to study a style that suited them but would always be practicing tai chi with it... i don't know how much truth there is in this

[Ben Grimm]

Oh no.. not Count Chocula.... Hahahaha

[Tanulis]

...it's okay. It's an internet forum...the people here are geeks too...you can admit to watching cartoon network without blaming it on your kids.

Cartoons are cool.
So are video games, kung-fu movies, and captain crunch.

What about Captain Crunch beating ass with Kung Fu in a video game? That would suck, I would beat that Captains ass with Count Chocula's vicious Bujinkan skills.

[Tanulis]

Is this a joke? Are you Yoda? Dude, you watch WAY too much cartoon network! This is almost an exact quote from the show, "Avatar", which my kids watch.

LMFAO! OH cmon Arieson, dont you want just a SIP from this guys bottomless well of knowledge?


IN other news, yes, Tai Chi Chuan is a great self defense art. Thought I would add my .02

I've seen some pretty devastating applications from Tai Chi. Lots of spine crunching, arm breaking, eye gauging type of moves, all of which will hurt more than a little.

Yes I agree, it seems that many are not really familiar with tai Chi or Kung Fu etc. So what they base their judgement on are by what they have seen, not what they have understood. many techniques in tai Chi or Kung Fu have applications that are hidden and harder to se in the forms. But when you se how they are used, everything changes.

Like a snake that coils tight into a circular ball shape, it might appear to be reclining and hiding, but as you approach it a sudden burst of energy shoots out at you and fangs lock into your leg. The snake was adjusting its body for the maximum attack.

Or like water flowing down a rock bed, the hard rocks do not stop the flow of water, and over time the water wears away the rocks. But to many the water seems soft and weak.

[jonbey]

I've seen some pretty devastating applications from Tai Chi. Lots of spine crunching, arm breaking, eye gauging type of moves, all of which will hurt more than a little.

Tai chi is considered a martial arts by many,it is said that if the techniques of Tai Chi are to be used very quickly in a real situation they will be very effective as a self-defense.

It depends on what kind of Tai Chi they are practicing. But yes Tai Chi is useful for self defense.

Of course these techniques can be done very quickly and softly if the other person isn't moving and isn't fighting back.

Tai Chi develops different principles for combat than the average Muay Thai fighter or kick boxer. Form is very important and tai Chi takes the path of least resistance. If a person learns how to move their body right they can deflect, shift, rotate etc away from the force of attack and flow into the defense. This takes time to develop. But the forms are not just for dance or health.

I personally do not consider Tai Chi an art of self-defense.

I personally do not practice tai Chi. But I know it can be used in combat. I think many mistake soft flowing forms for weakness. This is not always true. For example in Kung Fu there are forms like snake style or Bau Gwa etc, and these seem to be more flowing soft type f forms. But in application they have very effective combat usage. In Kung Fu we learn to be like water. Water is soft and yet can wear away a rock, it finds the openings and continues to flow through even the strongest of barriers. The difference to Muay Thai and other ring type of fighting is the principle and the fluidity.

Tai chi is considered a martial arts by many,it is said that if the techniques of Tai Chi are to be used very quickly in a real situation they will be very effective as a self-defense.

It depends on what kind of Tai Chi they are practicing. But yes Tai Chi is useful for self defense.

Of course these techniques can be done very quickly and softly if the other person isn't moving and isn't fighting back.

Tai Chi develops different principles for combat than the average Muay Thai fighter or kick boxer. Form is very important and tai Chi takes the path of least resistance. If a person learns how to move their body right they can deflect, shift, rotate etc away from the force of attack and flow into the defense. This takes time to develop. But the forms are not just for dance or health.

I can not imagine how an art with nothing but forms can be useful on street.

I do believe that some Tai Chi has two man drills and applications. And the issue here is that some cannot imagine how it is useful. That is because the principles are more advanced and complex in angles weight stances, deflecting of oncoming force etc .

For any art to be useful on street you need to train and practice like a fighter through full contact sparring.

Not neccessarily. To master a form and type of movement and to have practice in two man forms also can allow the fighter to be very efficient. he learns not to just bounce around and fight in sloppy form, but to move in the right angle and to follow the circular flow of movement. This is much harder to achieve, but I believe it may be better in the end.

Tai Chi as far as I am concerned is just an art for practicing chi and for learning to relax, that's why it is very good and healthy for young and elderly people.

It depends on what type of tai Chi you are practicing. It is true that many practice it for health and relaxation and they have no intent of using it for combat. But that is not true for all.

[Tant01]

Because at 60 he would look absolutely ridiculous wearing a Tapout shirt and shorts.

But he would be at home in the Gi...

[mellow]

Why do you think so?

Because at 60 he would look absolutely ridiculous wearing a Tapout shirt and shorts.