Is knife defense a waste of time?

[Szczepankiewicz]

too many seminar trained people out there claiming to teach knife.

Tell me about it. I'm being cyberstalked by one of them.

***

We play with knives as a basic extension of our training into bladed weapons. We haven't dug (digged?) too deeply yet as I'm still down a level from that training.

The 'disarms' we have where we intercept, redirect etc are fun to play with but I wouldn't actually attempt to employ them unless I had no other choice or it was just laid out there for me on a silver platter (which is also dangerous).

My strategy for handling a knife attack is to piss my pants, adrenaline dump, then try to use long weaponry to keep said attacker at bay long enough for me to either escape or engage with a sidearm.

Spanky

[krys]

To defend against a knive you have to know how to fight with it... ie you should spare with knives reallisticelly during your training.
Too many fma-silat peoples relly on drills for their training which is a wate of time.....

[fullcircle]

"a point to remeber is that well trained knife people"usually" won't even let you see the blade, so if the flash you the knife their skill"might" not be great."

I don't agree with this statement. I'm going to let you see the knife, after that I may flick your knuckles, slash an arm, whatever, something to make you see your own blood. If the person still wants to dance, then it's on, I may or may not switch to an inverted grip, depending on the situation. Holding a knife in a regular grip is more effective anyway.

[krys]

I don't agree with this statement. I'm going to let you see the knife, after that I may flick your knuckles, slash an arm, whatever, something to make you see your own blood. If the person still wants to dance, then it's on, I may or may not switch to an inverted grip, depending on the situation. Holding a knife in a regular grip is more effective anyway.

What you can't see you can't defend against....
What if your opponent pulls knives/ a gun after he sees you holding a knive?

[fullcircle]

Like I said, depends on the situation. I tend to keep in mind the "lethal force issue", if it gets the point where guns and knives are being pulled out I shouldn't have been there anyway. My initial intentions aren't to secretly pull out a knife and shove it through your chest (unless it's a home invasion or something like that, and if that was the case, I'd pull out my .45 ) my goal is to end the confrontation, hopefully without going to prison.

[sercuerdas]

like i said "usually" and "might" some will always do it differently.

[millie]

knife defences are difficult to preform on the street

if the attacker has one knife on him/her they should have a back up ie another knife or friend with a knife or stab or cut before they mug you or put it in your mouth from behind also you have to think of correct defence for the type of attack instantly
if you see it coming run they can change there mind chemicaly in 10 secs
if you are followed by them turn and fight before you are breathless pick up a weapon a brick, garbage lid broken bottle they wont like that act crazy animal like throw your wallat behind them when they pick it up run again money can be replaced
put something between like a telephone box lamp post car if its a nice car kick it
its a shame but you have more help from an alarm than screaming
the more difficult a target you are the better
if you are still in the shit resign yourself to the fact you are going to get cut or killed so make sure he is on the bed beside you in hospital
protect your vital organs and throat ie hold your neck with your
left hand protecting your heart with your elbow and fight with your right any thing goes the eyes are a good target attack them with your most effective weapon fingers mobile phone walking stick a plactic bag with a tin of beans in it
then learn a martial art for health fitness and the art

a good run is better than a bad stand
and that jail comment
rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6

[ImpactCQC]

If you are intersted in real self defense, can you afford not to train against it ?

[Harley]

Don't Dabble, Study!

Hello Everyone,
Each art contains some attempt to understand and teach the dynamics necessary to survive an edged weapon confrontation, be it empty handed or armed.
However, what it boils down to is this, how realistically do you train in those given concepts and techniques? Does the system in which you study take you from the beginning (knowning little or nothing ) to the most advanced blade confrontations (like both people having multiple blades)?
A blade system should contain a very real point of view regarding offensive and defensive movements.
It should contain deployment methods and carry methods.
It should involve situational awareness, senarios and role playing.
It should deal with the physical, mental and emotional responses when faced with, defending against and employing a blade.
It should involve medical management of yourself and others who are injured.
It should involve the legalities of weapons, weapons laws, use of force and the legalities of self defense with weapons.
and finally it should be taught in a progressive manner in which people can learn and develop, staying long enough to recieve the benefits of training while making constant and progressive advancement in skill and understanding.
NOW....if you don't intend on learning all that, you just want the nuts and bolts of defending the knife or want a few tricks to help you survive, your either simply not serious about your training or self defense or you don't understand the severity of a blade confrontation.

I find it amazing that most people will go out and play softball or flag football on the weekends harder than most martial artists will train to save their lives or the lives of their loved ones. Martial artists want the easy answers to the hardest questions and the blade question is hardest of them all.

So to to put it plainly, you either become very knowledgeable in this area and understand it completely and handle it skillfully or when the time comes you will have no answer at all!

Gumagalang,
Harley Elmore
Central United States Representative
Sayoc Kali International Group

[Airyu]

Hello Harley,

Great Post!!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

[two sword]

Knife defense is not a waste of time. I've been training with blades since I was a child...and have never seen a fight without arms since I was ten years old.

I have seen a couple of blade street encounters and you'll be suprised how well some of this stuff works.

Like Guro Harley said...It's all on how you train! How real do you train and how far are you willing to take your training.
(eg: my brothers and I have been to the ER multiple times since youth for edge weapon injuries)

Where I grew up there was alot of edge weapon violence and I'm not talking about little knives (7" and smaller) at times.

With that type of motivation you better believe we kept it real..

[yentao]

Hello all,

Do you think that teaching knife defense in unarmed fighting arts is a waste of time? I know that many TKD and karate instructors teach unarmed knife defense techniques by having one student stab or slash predictably and robotically. The defending student then intercepts the knife and disarms the attacker.

I could see how someone who specializes in Filipino or Indonesian weapons-oriented arts might have some chance -- some chance -- of disarming an attacker, but I really cannot see how a TKD or karate practitioner would benefit from dabbling in knife defense, especially when it's as poorly taught as I've seen it. Do you think that practitioners of unarmed MAs benefit from knife defense, or do you think their time would be better spent elsewhere?

If you know how knife works you might just know exactly how to fight against it and to use it save your ass. I prefer icepick instead of knife though cleanest weapon of death blood flows inside the body not flows outside immediately.

[yentao]

With a knife you can change your oppponents reaction. It makes them more careful right away the moment they see the blade. It breaks in their mind and starts to panic and run away. KNIFE fighting is a must have.

[krys]

I prefer icepick instead of knife though cleanest weapon of death blood flows inside the body not flows outside immediately.

Icepicks and balisongs are comonly found in the Philippines .... Icepicks are often used for assassination or muggings, during muggings the victim is sometimes stabbed first in order to break it's will...nobody will see it, then taken to a safe place and robbed of it's valuables.

I prefer push daggers, they are really difficult to disarm. Bought one in ALex Co's shop ,for just 220 pesos....

[old skool dude]

Waste of time? Not!

[QUOTE=BlackMaskX]Hello all,

Do you think that teaching knife defense in unarmed fighting arts is a waste of time? I know that many TKD and karate instructors teach unarmed knife defense techniques by having one student stab or slash predictably and robotically. The defending student then intercepts the knife and disarms the attacker.

I never think practice is a waste of time. It's better to have SOME kind of plan before the
ridiculous robotic methods should be sued or malpractice.I love giving impromtu demos with karate guys using rubber knives as I "cut them to ribbons" proving the ineffectiveness of their techniques.

The video, SURVIVING EDGED WEAPONS should be a part of anyones library who is serious about training in this area.


After all is said and done, a person has to be comfortable "within his own body" executing any type of technique, which is shy I suggest scenario training. Train knife defense in a hallway, in an elevator, in an empty subway car etc. You have to get accustomed to MOVING and REACTING That's what's going to save you. I would also practice defense using makeshift weapons like your coat, a belt etc. I know a lot of martial artists advocate improvised weapons use, but how many actual do it? take that jacket out of your closet and start swinging it around! get comfortable using it ! do the same with that umbrella, or that chair. If you really commit to using these thngs in daily practice, they wont be so "foreign" to you if you have to actually pick up something and use it.