Escrima And Krabi Krabong

[johnzag]

hi guys,

just reading some of your posts really interesting stuff.

In my opinion kicks have their palce in Arnis (kombatan) - which is what i do! But I probably wouldn't feel comfortable leading an attack in a weapons fight with a kick. However in certain times once your opponent has commited you can utilise a kicking technique as a counter.

[Tee Sok]

Tee Sok, if you get up Chiang Mai way, you should check out Pedro Villalobos' Ancient Thai Arts Academy. His address and telephone # have been posted in the thai boxing and kickboxing forums several times. I will look again and if I find them will post them here or send them to you. It is my belief, although I am out-of-date as to the situation currently in Thailand, that the school in Nong Kam (next to SE Asian University on Phetkasem Road, air bus 5) is still open; also that one of the sons is teaching for Mr Villalobos in Chiang Mai.

Thank you very much and sorry for my late reply but unfortunately I just came back home from the Kingdom of Thailand

[Crucible]

hi guys,

just reading some of your posts really interesting stuff.

In my opinion kicks have their palce in Arnis (kombatan) - which is what i do! But I probably wouldn't feel comfortable leading an attack in a weapons fight with a kick. However in certain times once your opponent has commited you can utilise a kicking technique as a counter.

Can you give us some kombatan examples?
Another question, I know GM Ernesto is from Negros, or at least his family was, was his arnis influenced (to your knowledge)by any of the Negros escrimadors?

[rabidpanda]

Does Krabi Krabong have the same type of Muay Thai conditioning? Shin hardening/deadening, upper thigh conditioning, and oblique conditioning? I think all three of these are very important to any Eskrimador because when you enter you can 'accidentally' knock shins and not be effected by it. I'm not sure where long range kicks would be effective in a stick/knife fight but hey anything is possible.

Medio and corto kicking is very possible though.

[johnzag]

Crucible,

should have probably explained myself a little better in my last post. Kicking in a weapons fight probably isn't that common. Simply because its very easy for the person with the weapon to attack the out stretched limb.

However say if someone was to thrust at you with a knife or a stick straight to your chest and you managed to block, apply a wrist lock (either outer or reverse) then you would have the option as part of teh counter to kick to the head or knee where appropriate.

You have to be selective when using kicks against a person with a weapon and most of the fancier kicks wont work. Simple quick techniques.

As far as I know in Negros Grand Master Presas learnt from his relatives who are all famous escrimadors. Just look at the 3 brothers Roberto, Remy and Ernesto they were or are all Grand Masters in their own right. Not a bad family to be a part of in terms of Martial Arts.

[chalambok]

As far as krabi-krabong goes, the kicks are done at very specific times/positions, and the drills are structured to teach this strategy. We do not just arbitrarily kick. In fact, we teach only 2 basic kicks, a round kick to the kidney and a foot jab to the stomach. Which kick you use is determined by relevant foot positioning and distances. There are people in the US who are getting away with kicking at the inappropriate time because, as has been mentioned in this thread, they are playing and not really fighting, and also because they are using sticks and not swords or knives. Another very important point is the people having success with this are not having success against other krabi-krabong players, who would never fall for the feinting upper strike. It must be remembered that what the uninitiated think are blocks are supposed to be timing and rhythm disruptions, and distancing should always be correct meaning if your weapon is not in position your body is far enough out of range so the opponent will miss with his strike. Most important in krabi-krabong are the footwork drills, just as in the Filipino Martial Arts. I hope I have explained a little bit of krabi-krabong theory for you, although I think it is a little wordy. I guess I picked a bad time to stop sniffing glue (a tribute to the late Lloyd Nelson and the movie Airplane... )

[rabidpanda]

Does it get into knees? Or low roundhouse stepping? You know where you use a low roundhouse as an entry.

[Guido Reimann]

..........
P.S.: Tee Sok means ellbow technique. Do you learn Muay Thai?

Sorry MaMike , but the technique is called SOK TEE and it doesn´t mean ellbow technique. It is a special 45 ° ellbow technique.

Greets
Guido

[Guido Reimann]

Hi Tee Sok,

.......... Maybe i can help you to find an instructor for Krabi Krabong. I don't like the IMBA and Marco de Cesaris, because he never learned real Muay Boran. He works together with Master Woody (Chinawut Sirisomphand) and he doesn't learn the real Muay Boran or Krabi Krabong, too. ..............

The most misunderstanded thing in Muay Boran is, that the self-made-kru's think muay boran are only the Mae Mai and Look Mai techniques. But Muay Boran is also a more deeper training methodic and an advanced footwork....

Greetz, Mike

Well MaMike how could you proof this? You are not a master in Muay Thai or Krabi Krabong either. How could you be so arrogant to say something like you did?

It´s not only the Buddhaiswan Institute which is perfect in the Thai Martial Arts. In Thailand are many good schools and institutes which are able to teach Thai Martial Arts, but since "Por Kru Samai Mesaman" died in 1998 it´s only Grandmaster Vichit Cheechern who is the leading authority of Krabi Krabong.

Grandmaster Vichit was a student of "Arjarn Nat Rong Den Saat" and "Arjarn Na Tep Pasadin Na Ayudhaya." Real legends in case of Thai Martial Arts, especially Krabi Krabong.

Concerning Muaythai/Muay Boran Grandmaster Vichit studied under
Arjarn Saweng Siripray (probably the best Muay Boran Expert) and under Grandmaster Sueb Juntana Kao Sol, the greatest still living Muay Boran Expert . He is 72 years old today and still teaching sometimes in Australia and some Universities in Bangkok.

Here are some more excellent and leading experts in Muay Thai/Muay Boran:

Ass. Prof. Somporn Saengchi


Kru Yodtong Srewaralak

Prof. Phosawat Saengsawang


Ajarn Natchaporn Banglengpradit


They are just a few of them.

Concerning Muay Boran. You are right with it´s not only Mae Mai and Look Mai Muay Thai. But they are the Master and Complimentary Muay Thai tricks you have to learn first. Muay Boran was categorized into different categories like

KON MUAY, CHERNG MUAY, MAE MAI (Mai Kru) and LOOK MAI (Mai Kred) MUAY THAI.


The old Thai Fighting Style was called (Pahayuth or Awut Thai) . The complete system like this is not to be taught by some masters no more. They just specialized to some splitted systems.

Let me explain as follows.

The old thai Martial Arts should not to be forgotten, that´s why some Kru Muay Thai (Muay Thai Masters) decided to bring a few of the old techniques together. So they created the above mentioned categories and a name was given "Muay Boran"-which is the synonym for old Thai Boxing.

In 1931 the Mae Mai and Look Mai techniques were put into 12 special techniques . Later the Kru Muay Thai took 15 techniques and taught them to their students.

During the period of King Rama 3 the categorizing and archiving was completed. You can find this written down in the "National Library of Thailand" .

The Mae Mai and Look Mai Muay Thai techniques are the basic knowledge to be learnt by the students.


One more example: Phrahem Samahan, a Kru Muay taught his students following Mae Mai techniques:

Chak Tee Teena Kern Prom Chok
Pid Pok Chok Duay Kao
Chok Kham Lai
Chok Nok Mur Chak Oak Hi Chok Nai
Chak Chang Prasan Nga
Chong Mala Lom Ploy Aab
Ching Lookmai Totsakan Hak Hok
Totsakan Sok
Kotchasan Tan Rong
Ka Lod Buang
Hanuman Bag Prah


Also to be explained is the fact of different old Muay Thai styles like they are:

"Muay Lanna"

"Muay Korat": Korat = Nakhon Ratchasima

"Muay Lopburi"

"Muay Chaiya"


For each style you can still find special training facilities in Thailand.

Hopefully this brings a little light into the darkness of Thai Martial Arts

Greets
Guido

[MAMike]

Oh Mr. Reimann is going to spread out his lies and rumours all over the world now.... maybe interesting for the real authorities in thailand......

[Guido Reimann]

Oh Mr. Reimann is going to spread out his lies and rumours all over the world now.... maybe interesting for the real authorities in thailand......

that is saying somebody like you who never really trained Muay Thai or Krabi Krabong in his Martial Arts life. This could be very interesting to know.

You are a "Nobody". Better explain or tell the people where did you learn your Muay Thai or Krabi Krabong knowledge?

People like you should be outed as a fake!

Greets
Guido

[MAMike]

that is saying somebody like you who never really trained Muay Thai or Krabi Krabong in his Martial Arts life.

Sure?

You are a "Nobody". Better explain or tell the people where did you learn your Muay Thai or Krabi Krabong knowledge?

I don't have to be a Kru or Arjan to discuss with other guys here at the forum, that's the differnt between me and you. You're just searching for any graduation, but there's no skill behind your titles.

People like you should be outed as a fake!

Okay, then tell us the truth about my person.....

[MAMike]

It's funny. You edited your posting, but you forgot that i get an email about your first reply......

Did you delete this, because it's another lie of you???:

Why don´t you mention that you declaimed yourself a student of mine before?

Hahaha, you made my day. It's so funny.....

[Guido Reimann]

No poor M. my skills cannot be proofed by you, cause you are not able to.

No I did not deleted my sentence because it is a lie. I just decided to write something else. The answer is so easy.

You are asked to proof your knowledge not me. So tell us where did you learn Muay Thai, you never trained it body just with you mouth or just from wathing videos.

So go ahead sneakin´and cheatin´ `round, Thats your style and your real skill.

Greats
Guido

[MAMike]

I'm waiting for the truth about my person old sad man.......