Escrima And Krabi Krabong

[Guido Reimann]

Sure?

Veryyyy Sure !!!!

I don't have to be a Kru or Arjan to discuss with other guys here at the forum, that's the differnt between me and you. You're just searching for any graduation, but there's no skill behind your titles.

Thats right and thats why I became a Kru of Muay Thai and Krabi Krabong and you don´t have the right to speak bad about very well educated Masters like Master Woody or Marco De Cesaris. And if you would be a fine hearted person with respect you wouldn´t do that either. So don´t blame me or another person about things which you cannot hold or could stand for.

That is the reason for my reaction and be sure nobody is interesting about you in Thailand, they not even know your name. So please be quiet in the future. You don´t deserve any respect.

That´s all from my site in case of Mr. MaMike.

Sorry to the other users here on board, but I cannot let somebody like MaMike profiling himself on the back of honoured and long educated persons.

I just would like to open the eyes of the people to be careful about MaMike!


Greets
Guido

[Tom Yum]

Reimann sum is a decent, but long-winded technique....

[george stando]

I find Guido Reimans comments way off base since he is a puppet of the physical education department of Thailand. The people he sites are just extensions of the phys ed department obviously he doesnt know they are just distilling and creating their own muay boran while the original styles have distinctions and will slowly die out, they promote their own puppet masters,muay boran has none of the original distinctions and remain a generic template to be sold to the farang. Ask any of the original teachers their opinion and you will get the truth in thailand. Dont be sold on this type of material and if you are understand what it is, what it was created for and what you are getting into.

[Tee Sok]

That is true George. Muay Boran is a nonsense. I read and interview of Kruu Yodtong, an old master of traditional Muay Thai, in which he says that Marco De Cesaris is not a master of Muay Boran. He came to his camp but he didn't train in the traditional fighting arts, just asked some questions. Moreover, when Marco De Cesaris founded his IMBA, he introduced his teacher, "master" Pimu, to the public. He did videos with him, wrote many articles about traditional Muay Thai and his "master"...But the fact is that Pimu is a pao trainer, not a teacher and not a master! Marco De Cesaris lied, and I believed in his lies too. I trained in one of his schools for 2-3 months and I can tell you that I learned more about Muay Thai when I trained in western boxing in a Muay Thai gym and looked at the thai boxing sparring sessions and techniques.
Now the IMBA also puts picures of Ong-Bak as an advertisement, to show that you can learn to fight like Tony Jaa(who, btw, trained with Kruu Yodtong) if you go to one of these schools.
The interview can be found here:http://www.ilguerriero.it/codino/art...ntervista2.htm
but it's in italian.....It has been done by Christian Daghio, an italian who lives in Thailand since 3 years and fights there regularly.

[Tee Sok]

I found the interview in english:

http://utenti.lycos.it/muaythaiboran/Nuova%20cartella/muaythaiboran/Muaythayboran.htm

You have to click on the link right at the top of the title.

[William]

Is KK a valid system? Yes!
Is it simple & straight forward? Yes and no. Like Muay Thai, it's not a terribly complex system, but quite powerful and like anything else there are certain mechanics of movement that need to be trained and ingrained. As Chalambok pointed out, kicks are not used for just for the sake of kicking, certain movements and disruptions create openings for the the powerful Thai round kick and foot jabs. Kicks are used sparingly and strategically.
If you come from a strictly FMA background, KK can feel a little weird at first. But if you have trained in Muay Thai, KK will have a very familiar feel to it. Why is that? Muay Thai comes from the weaponry technique of KK. Problem is that not to many people in the states have been exposed to KK, and only a few that have been trained at the Buddhai Swan. Even to many in Thailand it's thought of as more of a ceremonial art. The open hand component of MT has been heavily emphasized as a national sport and that is what has made its way here. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, Muay Thai is extremely effective and proven.

One thing you have to remember about Systems like FMA and Krabi-Krabong is that the open hand and weapon movements go hand in hand. Open hand movements are derived directly from the use of weaponry technique. This is a characteristic of systems that are derived from actual warfare. Why?

First: Warfare is the use of weaponry, not open hand.
Two: Getting troops/warriors ready for battle as quickly as possible.

Teaching a system of weaponry and open hand together is faster and more efficient. And in the heat of battle, if your weapon gets broken or knocked out of your hand, you can keep flowing to open hand and with luck, eventually pick up another weapon with out thinking (i.e. shifting gears). Teaching one form of open hand, and then teaching weapons that are based off of different mechanics is a good sign that it was just added to the system for the sake of having a "weapons component". Most likely an original open hand system that added weapons later. Not a "war art". Plus taking 20 years to get good at a martial art is useless when defending your country from invaders. If you lose a battle with heavy casualties, are you going to be able to wait 5, 8, 10, 15, or 20 years to replenish your ranks? A sign of a good system is one that can get you proficient in a short period of time. The FMA's, Muay Thai/Krabi-Krabong do just that. I don't remember where I found this quote but it fits here:

" This Apparent simplicity, on the surface of the art, reflects the underlying emotion inherent in it. That is the quick, economical destruction of the opponent. bearing in mind that Krabi Krabong, and its offspring Muay Thai, evolved from Thais defending their homeland and not wanton imperialism or inter-tribal conflict. Therefore, at the core of the Thai martial arts exists the belief that if fighting must take place, the wholesale destruction of the opponent is warranted - and in the quickest, most powerful fashion. It is due to this aspect that the Thais and their martial arts are so highly respected for their fighting spirit and ferocity. Though based only on a few tenets - such as power, speed and simplicity - the art utilizes its techniques in combinations and variations of which there are endless permutations. The goal being the immediate, natural response to the attack with quick, decisive strikes to incapacitate expediently."

Today, people have the luxury of taking the time to learn different arts that take many years of training to get good at. Some people who do these arts scoff at systems like FMA, KK, and MT that don't take long periods of time to get good at combatively, but I'll still put my money on the ones that are derived directly from combat systems. Good, basic, effective systems.

William

*See the "No Mercy, No Escape" thread in the Thai Boxing forum for more on KK from Ajarn Tony Moore. (page 2, post 22).

*In the movie, "The Man with The Golden Gun", they have a breif KK demo right before the corny James Bond Karate fight.

*part of my reply here was taken from one of my previous postings.

[krys]

How is KK knife fighting ? Very different from mainstream fma?
Could somebody give me some info on this topic?

Thanks.

[Tee Sok]

Thanks for the cool reply William, and for the interesting quote. With this description, whoever said that got to the core of thai martial arts, I think.

[george stando]

The quote William quoted is from Vincent Giordano's piece called "The Functional usage of krabi krabong" You probably picked up a piece of that from mma. tv as there were several posts there from that long article as he uses it alot to illustrate his point. Nobody bar none writes or understands or teaches the depth of combative functional usage better than Mr. Giordano. He simply understands the material in a way that is clean and concise.

[William]

Hey Krys,
I would defer to Chalambok on KK knife. You might try searching the Thai Boxing forum, I believe he has posted on the topic there before. I am by no means an authority on KK. I worked Krabi (double swords), mae sawks (kind of like clubs strapped to the arms), and to a lesser extent the Plong (staff/quarter staff) during my KK training. I still work the drills and I will admit that the Mae sawks are my favorite to work. Nasty.

George,
thanks for pointing out where the quote originated from. I think I got that from the KK section in the old USMTA web site. I have been in intermittent contact with Mr. Giordano over the last couple of years. Mainly to check back with him on the progress of his KK & MT books and DVD's that he's been working. I think the last time was about a year ago....time to check back again.

William

[Tee Sok]

I forgot to say that towards the end of Ong-Bak you can see a good demonstration of Krabi Krabong, very good to watch and quite reality based!

[William]

I forgot to say that towards the end of Ong-Bak you can see a good demonstration of Krabi Krabong, very good to watch and quite reality based!

Tee Sok,
I forgot to mention Ong-Bak. One of my PTK brothers sent me a copy since he knows I'm also very much into the Thai systems. The only movie that I have seen realistically displays MT and KK. There is still a little movie flash but a lot of true Thai movements.

William

[EGstudent]

Krabi Krabong is a very effective and endurance testing system. I recently tried it at a Guru Dan Inosanto seminar it was pretty intresting.