Inosanto Silat

[SuperToe]

Silat

Wow.Thats good stuff!

What is your main art? mande muda? or sikal?

You ever do the Leg strenthing in mande muda!! I heard good things

[sikal]

Wow.Thats good stuff!

What is your main art? mande muda? or sikal?

You ever do the Leg strenthing in mande muda!! I heard good things

My primary system is Sikal but it draws from Mande Muda and the de Thouars Serak and some from Uncle Bill's Kuntao Silat. I never formally studied Mande Muda (my instructor did) but I attended a lot of seminars with Pak Herman before he died because I enjoyed the material and the way he taught it.

Oh, and the leg strengthening I'm not sure specifically what you're referring to unless it's the Harimau forms. We've got one that we use in the Sikal curriculum but Pak Herman used to run us through several at seminars. The first one was very basic - and very similar to the one in the Sikal curriculum. From there they got progressively more strenuous. I don't know how many there were but I believe I saw six of them (if memory serves). I did them at seminars but didn't retain any of them. But talk about a leg workout!!!

Mike

[SuperToe]

Silat

I just Order I tape with those forms!!

I really want to learn a entire silat system!
I a had my choice it would be Mande Muda ,maphilindo..

WHat is Sikal Like ???
Never really heard much about it..

[SuperToe]

silat

got alittle silat video clip vion my site.....

http://c.1asphost.com/supertoe/

[sikal]

I just Order I tape with those forms!!

I really want to learn a entire silat system!
I a had my choice it would be Mande Muda ,maphilindo..

WHat is Sikal Like ???
Never really heard much about it..

Nice Harimau clip

Sikal is a hybrid system that draws from several systems of Filipino and Indonesian martial arts. Silat and Kali = Sikal

On the Filipino side, it draws primarily from the Inosanto blend, some from Bobby Taboada's Balintawak, some from traditional Doce Pares and some from Eskrido.

On the Indonesian side, it draws primarily from de Thouars lineage Serak and some from Mande Muda.

My instructor's primary instructor was Dan Inosanto but he also trained extensively with Diony Canete, Cacoy Canete, Bobby Taboada, Paul de Thouars, Willem de Thouars, Victor de Thouars and Herman Suwanda.

Mike

[SuperToe]

Silat

That sounds like a very awesome system you have.

Does your guru also trian in sayoc? I though i saw he in a clip! could be wrong.

Does he still train under any of those ppl?

Here is a question.!! From all the silat there is and which youve trained
which style is the most unqnie!

Ex. Harimau is an amazing style. Very diffcult moves, but most rewarding!

[sikal]

That sounds like a very awesome system you have.

Does your guru also trian in sayoc? I though i saw he in a clip! could be wrong.

Does he still train under any of those ppl?

Here is a question.!! From all the silat there is and which youve trained
which style is the most unqnie!

Ex. Harimau is an amazing style. Very diffcult moves, but most rewarding!

I like Sikal

Yes, Guru Ken is an Associate Instructor in Sayoc. He still trains with Guro Dan and Willem de Thouars when he can. His primary focus these days - as far as his personal development - is Sayoc Kali.

Hm. I'm not sure how to answer your question about "unique."

Mike

[SuperToe]

silat

Sounds good..

Maybe i find unique because of lack of exposure to the arts up here!! haha.

there's lots of kung-fu, and karate. (boring) for me aleast. I do like Jun fan thou.

I'm trying right now to become a student under Tuhon Phil Gelinas. His the closet person that teaches the arts to me. and he total kicks ass at martial arts!!

any sikal in canada? or in ontario.

[sikal]

Sounds good..

Maybe i find unique because of lack of exposure to the arts up here!! haha.

there's lots of kung-fu, and karate. (boring) for me aleast. I do like Jun fan thou.

I'm trying right now to become a student under Tuhon Phil Gelinas. His the closet person that teaches the arts to me. and he total kicks ass at martial arts!!

any sikal in canada? or in ontario.

LOL. I've not met Mr. Gelinas but have heard good things about him. Another guy you'll meet at Mr. Gelinas's school is Guru Randall Goodwin. I have met and trained some with Randall - at a seminar back in '98. He is a senior practitioner under Willem de Thouars and is top notch. I look forward to seeing him again in August when my instructor has him in for the 11th Annual Kun Tao Silat de Thouars Family Gathering in Dayton, OH.

Unfortunately, no. There's no Sikal in Canada. Only in Ohio and Kentucky.

Well, it's not unique, per se, but I'll tell you what impressed me about Silat when I first saw it. At the time, it was completely unique to me. Since then I've realized that what I saw is pretty common among Silat systems. What impressed me was the mindset and attitude.

First time I saw Silat it was from the guy who would become my primary instructor for the next 10 years (and counting), Guru Ken Pannell. He's 5'8" and about 135 lbs. When I met him, I was 5'8" and abou 230 lbs. He was taking guys bigger than me and throwing them around like ragdolls. I'd seen that done before. But the way he did it - like he had nothing but contempt for them; they weren't even worth his time to actually fight. That was impressive. My first reaction was, "BS! They're falling for him!" Then he did it to me and I thought, "OK. I don't know how he's doing that. But I want it!"

That mindset/attitude is pretty common to the Silat that I've been exposed to. Most of the techniques I've learned in Silat I've also seen - in one form or another - in other martial arts.

Mike

[SuperToe]

silat

i really like to be able to finish the bad guy quickly.. no b/s...no beating around the bush.. i know if it came down to it i could use the silat i know.

[sikal]

i really like to be able to finish the bad guy quickly.. no b/s...no beating around the bush.. i know if it came down to it i could use the silat i know.

I agree 100% with that sentiment and your confidence in your ability to use your tools is the #1 priority in training.

I always felt real comfortable with the Mande Muda stuff - as far as being able to apply what I learned. The Serak stuff took longer. It was a lot more detail-oriented and relied on a lot more subtlety to be effective. I was learning it but it felt robotic and impossible to apply. Then things started clicking - it seemed like it happened overnight after about 3 years of training in it but I know it occurred more gradually than that. But I started finding the stuff in sparring and then I had a couple of real situations where the material just came out of me - neither situation was a fight and I apologized to both people. The first was when a guy bumped into me after work one day.

I was working at a Renaissance Festival and we were closing. The guy was in a hurry and bumped into me. I pivoted, tapped, and swept with a sapu dalam. The guy went down and skidded across the gravel. I, of course, apologized but the guy honestly thought he'd just bumped into me, lost his balance and fallen. He didn't realize that I'd swept him at all. The second time was far less drastic in the results.

I came around a corner at the mall and there were two guys walking in front of me and talking. One of them shot his arm out to point at something in a store window. His arm was at my head height and, from my perspective, it just suddenly appeared there about to clock me. I kept moving forward while ducking (kind of a duck walk, if you will) while also slapping the arm up and over my head. This put the guy into position for a kenjit siko. At that point, I realized that it hadn't, in fact, been any sort of attack and I didn't dump him on his head. I stepped out, apologized and kept walking - with a smile and chuckle as I heard him ask his friend, "What the !@#$ just happened?"

As I say, neither of those was a fight. But they did make it obvious to me that not only could I use my Silat training, but that it would come out of me without any hesitation or awkwardness.

Mike

[SuperToe]

silat

Awesome stories, i feel sorry for that last guy. hahahaha..

What is the english word for kingit. i know the siko,deery, cocky..but dont have a clue what it means.

i remember once i class, i was showin a teche using foot sectors 1 and transferin to 3. I weight only 130.my part was 220. I did it and he went flying it was pretty kool..haha good times.

[sikal]

Awesome stories, i feel sorry for that last guy. hahahaha..

What is the english word for kingit. i know the siko,deery, cocky..but dont have a clue what it means.

i remember once i class, i was showin a teche using foot sectors 1 and transferin to 3. I weight only 130.my part was 220. I did it and he went flying it was pretty kool..haha good times.

LOL. If I hadn't seen the words spelled my phonetic spellings would probably be worse than yours. And spelling the Indonesian words can be tricky in general. I'm far from an expert but I've had some of the words - especially as related to Silat - pounded into my head over the years. Here's a quick and dirty vocab/spelling lesson for some of the common Silat terms. I'll use the modern spelling first then the Dutch Colonial in parenthesis. Bear in mind that these aren't, as far as I can tell, hard and fast spellings and I've seen a good deal of minglings between the spellings. But this is some of the basics - at least as I've picked them up over the years. If there are any Bahasa Indonesia speakers on the board, feel free to correct me

In the modern spelling, "c" is pronounced like "ch" in English. "j" is pronounced as we do in English. "u" is pronounced like "oo" in English. "a" is like "ah".

So with those basics in mind, here are some terms commonly used in Silat - at least in my studies.

sapu (sapoe) = literally "broom" - refers to a forward sweep

biset or bizet = not sure of a literal translation but refers to a backward sweep

luar = outside

dalam = inside

kenjit or kengit = compression

siko = elbow

juru (djoeroe) = usually translated as "short hand form" - refers to short forms used to develop upper body mechanics

langkah = footpath - refers to forms used to develop lower body mechanics

bungah = flower - refers to forms and solo practice

buah = fruit - refers to applications (usually implying applications specifically derived from the bungah)

kembangan = "flower dance" (you see the "bungah" root there at "banga"?) - usually refers to longer forms which incorporate both upper and lower body work

puter = turning

kepala = head

tarik = pulling

masuk = enter, entry

"masuk dengan tembus" (I think I got it right - if not, I'm close) = "enter with penetration" - or "enter with authority" (not real common but I've heard it a few times from different Silat people and it definitely seems to sum up the Silat mindset (at least on "bridging the gap")

kaki = leg - I assume this is what you meant by "cocky"

diri = self - I assume this is what you meant by "deery"

bela = literally, "care for, nurture" - refers to defense

bela diri (of course) = self defense


This list, of course, is in no way complete

Yes, if your foot sectors are the same as mine (and they probably are since they both probably come from the Inosanto material) then the move you describe would be, in Indonesian lingo, moving from a luar position (probably not set up for a technique) to a sapu dalam position. If you didn't sweep with your leg, then I'd call it an "upper body sapu dalam". All the sweeps and takedowns can be done using the upper body or lower body.

Mike

[SuperToe]

haha

You asume right with your spelling. Thanks for the list.

Here's another Topic..

From the Jab which do you perfer.
1.Hit and go over
2.Split
3.Hit and go under
4.Outside
5.inside
6.Reverse

I myself perfer to do either hit and go over or inside entrie. People tell me I should not do thous ones because there not safe to do. But When I do them no one seems to know what and how to counter. From there i always shoot an elbow!! then whatever shows itself! then a knee!! I love thous big GUNZ!

What do you think?

[sikal]

You asume right with your spelling. Thanks for the list.

Here's another Topic..

From the Jab which do you perfer.
1.Hit and go over
2.Split
3.Hit and go under
4.Outside
5.inside
6.Reverse

I myself perfer to do either hit and go over or inside entrie. People tell me I should not do thous ones because there not safe to do. But When I do them no one seems to know what and how to counter. From there i always shoot an elbow!! then whatever shows itself! then a knee!! I love thous big GUNZ!

What do you think?

I think they all have their place and are all important. I don't have a preference among them until someone swings. Then I prefer the one that comes out of me

Which one comes out partially depends on the attack and partially depends on my stance/position in relation to the person when they swing.

Mike