UNARMED VS KNIFE

[Harley]

This may be a little of track but....
I trained with Lynn Thompson a few years ago and talked him into teaching his personal knowledge to other martial artist. he now teaches his "Cut, don't get Cut" seminars all over. even though it is a little high priced. but i know he gets most of his stuff from training partner Felix Valensia, may have mispelled the last name. But Maybe his skill is due in large part to Felix/lameco escrima? Once again, a confirmation that the late Punong Guro Sulite was on his game! Guro Gould you are a lucky man to have trained with him.
just a thought that occured to me.
harley

[Ironpalm]

for directions ask a troll

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Knife defense

I think the ultimate truth to when you are attacked by someone who is brandishing a knife is, unless you can use a high impact disarm while the attacker is removing or threatning with the knife, the most you can hope for ( if escape is not an option) is to protect the areas of your body that will be damaged most by a blade. Having been faced with knife assults in the past and being in a position of reacting as opposed to acting ( never knew it was coming) I chose to sacrafice my hands and grab the knife hand with both of my hands. This will cut you up pretty bad and leave you open to the possibility of being punched or kicked, but the knife can't inflict damage that is far worse, like cutting your corroted or femeral arteries.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[Ironpalm]

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[shuyun]

wow! i feel small reading the wealth of knowledge you guys have in knife fighting.

i have survived a knife fight myself but fought by instinct. i didn't have training in knife fighting but what ever i did must have been somewhat right coz i lived. still.

I was taken from behind (yup as said earlier it's bad news). a text book escape situation but somehow with a real knife in your neck the textbook seems wrong. so using both hands i pulled the knife away from my neck and just kept him from stabbing me. i kept both hands on his one knife hand (that was an 8 inch kitchen knife) using the only useful advice that came to mind "eyes on the knife not on the hand the knife is nore deceitful than the hands that weild it." (paraphrase from gurney halleck in dune)

and sure enough he transfered the knife to the other hand and i held that too. there was a point when i was on the ground and he was leaning over me with the knife close to my gut (about 2 inches away). no real knife technique here on my part just a judo exercise i knew that you musn't let him touch you. he ran from the fight because my girlfriend distracted him enough for me to stand up again. and finally after that struggling he succeeded in stealling my girlfriend's phone because i was too distracted fighting.

i got away with some hand cuts (i think i grabbed the blade at some point). What did i do right? what did I do wrong?

though if he came from the front i think i could have stood a better chance

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Sounds like you did everything right. You're still here, that's what counts. Under stress and addrenaline, in imperfect surroundings, and at night or in poor visability, fine motor skills like those in a lot of disarming techniques fail. Movements are shortened, hand eye coordination and visual acquity all suffer when faced with a real situation. What works in a dojo doesn't always work. That doesn't mean we should discard our training, but maybe evaluate it and decide for ourselves if the technique is practical.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[ReneH]

You did the right thing by holding the knife hand and securing it, keeping it away from you and watching for the switch. You did the right thing by not resorting to "tapping" or "scooping" as it would have dragged this thing on longer, surely increasing your chances in getting diced and killed. Also, you were attacked when you were least prepared, as is the case in most knife assaults, leaving you with the option of self-preservation: you didn't have an "exit" and it was close quarter, and you could not get your gun or knife to even the odds. A fight for your life. Now thats a knife assault! I recall a friend of mine saying that a weapons attack is one in which it is an empty hands problem before you can even the odds with your own weapon. Something to think about when training blade defenses.

Rene Hinojosa
pfs-stx.com

[shuyun]

thanks for the encouragement folks.

[Garland]

I think the idea is to always be the one with the knife.

[shuyun]

but not have one knife in the gut

[thedarkhallway]

Reality

Just to start off with the truth, I have no formal training in FMA, Knife or Stick Fighting.
I hold my expertise in empty hand self defense. Also my instructors are probably unknown to most.
I have been reading this forum for a while now and the one thing I noticed is all the talk about the reality of the knife, especially when it comes to Empty Hand Vs. Knife. But reality is just that! I have seen people who even beaten down could not be put into a lock for a disarm. I have seen people who could knock you out at will, some who had no training. And most people who can truly fight well are not the type who trains at a school. They are people born with the instinct to fight or to do harm to there fellow man. This instinct is what you have to fight against.
Techniques are very limited in a real world application, but instinct could take you into any type of encounter and bring you out alive. If you feel like you are going to get cut then guess what?! The reality is that when a weapon is involved your mind or instinct will do most of the work. And what is going to matter the most is your “will” to defend your self, and inflict harm on your attacker.
Training seams to be more like mentally conditioning yourself to the situation. It is giving you mind a set of examples in order to draw a conclusion for the appropriate action. This is where quality training comes into play.
So what are the chances of seeing and pulling off the technique you wanted to or you thought you would have done? Forget “thought” just let “it” take over!

[Tom Yum]

Fine line...

Hi, your observation is true. Some people's personalities are more prone to fighting than others, regardless of the reason and are more likely to start fights or put themselves in those situations.

I guess one of the differences between learning a system of fighting is that you may not have to use it. If you do, you have some weapons at your disposal. The pay off of fighting in the ring or cage is that you get good fighting experience, can remain within the bounds of the law and deal with real fight pressure (getting knocked down, out, choked or dislocated).

Fighting on the streets is totally unpredictable, not ideal, and illegal.

[IronFist]

George Harrison did exactly the same the same thing years back. A psycho broke into his house with a six inch blade intent on killing him. As the guy tried to stab him he grabbed the hand holding the blade and held it as tightly as he could. He had no martial arts experience but this very act saved his life back then

Hello! The old forums used to be a great reference for ideas/strategies/tactics about fighting ,I guess that those posts are gone forever ,and regrettably the ones from Marc Denny on multiple opponents and one from Burt Richardson on unarmed vs the knife.So whats everyones opinion on the best way to handle this situation ( other than run, pull my Glock .45/Mossberg shotgun, etc.)either from your training or stuff that you have (unfortunately) had to use.I have never been a victim of a knife attack.In training I have found that grabbing the knife hand with both hand,keeping it away from me and hitting, tripping ,and trying to get him to the ground have worked fairly well(training concepts taken from BR and Peyton Quinn)I have found that sudden surprise (simulated )attacks are very difficult without being "cut" to shreds or suffering terrrible possibly fatal and limb incapacitating injury.we also have trained with attacks from behind...this is bad news Hint: dont get attacked from behind ...Well Im anxious to hear what everyone has to say .