Origins of Arnis, Kali and Escrima???

[bahotae]

Yet for centuries people from Mindanao designed and forged their edged weapons to a certain design, they used these weapons effectively. There's ample historical photographs and written accounts from the Spanish themselves of their efficacy. The above illustration I posted was written by Spanish stationed in the islands, who were impressed enough at the level of weapon design that they took the time to create manuscripts and images for their museums.

Tribal societies in such shows like "Going Tribal", prove a universality of how tribal societies throughout the world pass down their martial skills to their tribes.

The Igorots have been recorded to pass down their skills through certain mockfighting and rights of manhood.

Perhaps the difference between what many consider "FMA" is from the POV of skills being passed down through a certain structure that mimics Japanese, Chinese and Western frameworks of teaching.



I don't disagree with that.

There is certainly crossover but there's also a lot of Japanese and Chinese arts in there as well. The whole methodology of "flowing" movements is NOT Spanish at all, but more Indonesian and Chinese MAs. You just have to look at the way the practitioners of WMA move compared to their Eastern counterparts and FMA is closer to the Eastern.

Maestro Martinez a Spanish sword instructor once asked me what the sinawali movements were all about when he was watching students at an Inosanto seminar once. It was not a movement he was familiar with. From someone who actually teaches a form of real "eskrima".

When we used to compete in the early eighties in Open Martial Arts tournaments, it would be VERY rare, almost impossible to be placed in a hard style category. Even outsiders looked at FMA movements and placed them to the softer style category because of the circular, flowing Chinese like movements.




However, if you read the Pigafetta accounts the Visayans weilded "scimitars" and old Spanish museum catalogues show those weapons to look very much like early versions of kampilans. William Henry Scott also wrote about how Visayans used to obtain their forged swords from Mindanao because of the high quality. The Cebueskrima blog even writes about an account of a Visayan hero who used a Mindanao designed sword even though the blog refuses to take into account of Mindanao having a martial art.



If you look at the hundreds and hundreds of first hand accounts of Muslims using swords, are we logically to come to the conclusion that they did not know how to use them? Or that everyone FORGOT how to use them?

Prior to 1904 are there numerous recorded accounts of ANY Filipino teaching arnis? - does that mean that even though the argument some have professed of Visayans being TAUGHT sword skills by some Spanish friar, one could not FIND a Filipino who did?

Even the bogus "Spanish Friars taught Filipinos Eskrima School" have to use accounts of Visayans using swords DURING war. However, in turn these "scholars" refuse to acknowledge Muslim Filipinos using their weapons DURING War as indicative of a martial art.

Wouldn't people see that's quite an illogical argument and an odd double standard?

It also begs the question that if people want to learn PURE Eskrima why should they study with Filipinos?

There's ample Western schools of the sword out there, there's Spanish sword schools popping up. Why should NON - Filipinos or Fil-AMs study from people who believe they didn't even originate their own skills, but obtained them from priests? Priests by all logical accounts would be second rate practioners compared to Spanish maestros who used swords ALL the time?

Isn't it a way to shoot oneself in the cultural foot? Have these proponents of "Spanish FMA" thought about the long term reprecussions of their ill conceived arguments on this subject?

Let's get back to the design of swords.

A kris or kampilan is made that way for specific purposes.

A kris has no utility value that another working tool can do better. A kris was a killing weapon that creates a wound channel which inflicts serious damage to the targeted body parts.
It also is clearly influenced by its smaller Indonesian counterpart the Keris.
The Keris and the Indonesians HAVE a Martial Art. At one time, there was no demarcation that the Southern islands were part of any country prior to Legaspi's arrival.

With that much thought involved in the way blades were made and the rich martial history of the southern region, are we still going to propose that NO ONE in Mindanao knows how to use a kris?

One more important detail of the creation of "Martial Arts" is that they are usually RECORDED and STUDIED after their time of war. Many Western sword manuals were written by those who returned from war, when the sword was becoming a duelling weapon or when the author was near retirement.

Perhaps the lack of anyone in Mindanao wishing to share their ancestor's sword arts is more an illustration of the great cultural divide and underlying societal conflict that still exists between Southern and Northern Filipino brothers.

In a way, the double standard, self- interest and dismissive arguments proposed by blogs like Cebueskrima are more an indication of Filipino cultural division that is quite apparent to any outsider looking in.

The endless second guessing of their ancestor's martial skills garners an outsider's puzzlement rather than scholarly respect. Do their martial skills only have worth if they hold the Spanish influence as their SOLE source of origin?

Perhaps this ugly remnant is the TRUE influence of the Spanish occupation.

Btw, bahotae you have the best screenname!
--Rafael--

Sir Sunhelmet,

I totally agree with this post and I'm convinced. We are really lucky to have you here.

Thank you very much for educating all of us here and taking the time to answer this thread.

Very Respectfully,

Jeff

PS Thank you for complementing my screen name. Most people think it stinks.