reality of the knife

[yenhoi]

I usually have a utility blade and a balisong.

[Veynn]

I carry two knives everytime. A small folder inside my wallet and a folding claw knife at my back pocket. Sometimes I bring three.

[Starrider7777]

reality of the knife

I have done some training in Kali and Silat (and a mix of some other styles). I explored these because I was very interested in learning how to deal with a blade or club weapon when I was empty handed. I also wanted to become competent with a knife myself.
In my course of study and training I came across a little book by the name of "Put 'Em Down and Take 'Em Out,
Knife Fighting Secrets From Folsom Prison".
It was written by a cat by the name of Don Pentecost who was a former inmate of the aforementioned institution. I immediately took this publication to be a very relevant read on the basic premise of the author's background.
I found the simple principles put forth in the book to be very effective against several different styles not the least of which was Espada Y Daga (stick and dagger or long and short blade) style which was the most noted specialty of my instructor. In fact I found it to be so deadly (when I was the one with a blade especially) that I pretty much stopped putting energy into learning and training and started to carry a legal sized blade for defense.
I have payed for this by losing the cardio vascular benefits of the workouts and the clarity and focus that martial training brings to the mind. Because of this loss, I have recently started training again. Still, I am again finding that the "Folsom" technique is Dynamite, especially if you are the one with the blade or found weapon.
I very much agree with the posts that make the point that unarmed against someone else with a blade (assuming some kind of proficiency level and sobriety level in that opponent), you are in serious trouble no matter what your martial art or what proficiency level you may be in that art... (Unless of course you are a supreme ultimate master and happen to have the initiative and every other break going your way, 'nuff said) ...

Soooo, I was just wondering if anybody else was familiar with that book I mentioned or is familiar with something that ties into all this? Just trying to keep the discussion going.

[darrianation]

I have trained in MA for long time in karate and MT as well as briefly in arnis and kenpo. After all my training I hope and pray I don’t have to go up against a knife at least not without my 45.

I have practiced defenses against the knife, but practice isn’t reality (better than nothing I suppose). The knife sticking through your thoracic cavity is.

[krys]

Hello, here are my five cents on the topic ...

Disarming a knive is a very hard task.
Usually you will not receive the clean cuts you were prepared during training. A skilled opponent will use feints, some of which are designed to counter unarmed opponents (hardly teachable in a gym in the West). Chances of getting cut are very high so if possible run if you are not armed, (might be a good idea even if you are, just read that a guy in the new bilibid prison seriously stabbed seven of his mates before he was killed, and i guess everybody is armed there).

This also seems to be obvious but people should not train with wooden blades.
This kind of weapons gives a false sense of security and makes the situation appear less dangerous.
Non cutting blades in metal should be used.

Actually I prefer to train with metallic double edges as they really are bigger trouble than single edges. The already small probability of disarming an opponent really goes down then.

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

Don't go for the crack, a fracture is better.
Tausug proverb.

[SwampFox]

Moro.....i understand where you are comming from.....

i used to take Karate from a guy that taught the Bo.....but he never taught anything with the blade, in my year of being there we only once did knife dis-arms....and it was very short at that....

i think most people thing like you said, a knife is something you use to cut up a steak or chop vegetables. Then there are the select few that see the knife as a weapon....

like i said.....i carry 2 Bali-Songs with me almost everywhere i got in sholder holsters.......but personally......i would not want to go knife on knife...

the question im asking is: would it by wise to pull out your knife if someone attacked you without one.......IE: someone comes at you and is intent on causing bodily harm, but has no weapon....would it be wise to pull the knives if for nothing other than the sight of them might discourage the attacker?

[sikal]

Originally posted by SwampFox
the question im asking is: would it by wise to pull out your knife if someone attacked you without one.......IE: someone comes at you and is intent on causing bodily harm, but has no weapon....would it be wise to pull the knives if for nothing other than the sight of them might discourage the attacker?

Never pull a weapon "just for show." Keep your weapons out of sight for as long as possible (even while using them). A weapon that's not seen is much harder to defend against - and less likely to get you in legal trouble if the witnesses don't see it. If you feel your life, or that of another, is in imminent danger, then pull your blade and attack.

But, one of the beautiful things about balisongs (or, really, any knife) is their versatility. You don't have to open it to use it. Use it like a palm stick for pain compliance. If the situation escalates, then use it for striking. If the situation escalates further, then open it and use it for cutting/stabbing.

I would never draw a blade on anyone unless I felt my life or someone else's was in immediate danger. But I wouldn't heistate to use a folded blade as a palm stick against an unarmed attacker.

Mike

[Psyo]

I'm not trying to sound sarcastic but what if they throw it at you when you're running away (although that would probably be better because they don't control it anymore)

Run in a zig zag fashion ? ? run behind cover ? ?

[sikal]

Originally posted by Psyo
I'm not trying to sound sarcastic but what if they throw it at you when you're running away (although that would probably be better because they don't control it anymore)

Run in a zig zag fashion ? ? run behind cover ? ?

According to what I've been told, in most situations, you're probably safer running in a straight line unless you know the person is skilled in projectile weapons (this is true of firearms, also).

Most people, in a stressful environment, can't hit the broad side of a barn. So if you zig zag, you're just as likely to run into the path of their missed shot as you are to avoid getting shot.

If you know the person is a skilled/experienced shooter/thrower, then zig zagging erratically is a good idea. If you know the person isn't particularly skilled/experienced then running in a straight line away is probably just as safe (and maybe safer). If you don't know the person at all (which is most likely the case) then do what feels right at the time. It's a crap shoot regardless.

If you can find cover, take it ... that's always a good idea (unless you get pinned down behind the cover and become a "fish in a barrel").

Mike

[SwampFox]

on the subject of throwing bali songs......ive tried......many different ways, and 9 times out of ten the handles hit instead of the blade............good for getting a bit of a lead though if someone is chaseing you i guess.......

I didnt mean pulling it out just for show.......i know better than that....im just saying that if someone is trying to hurt you, but does not have a weapon.....would it be smart to pull out the blade?

[sikal]

Originally posted by SwampFox
on the subject of throwing bali songs......ive tried......many different ways, and 9 times out of ten the handles hit instead of the blade............good for getting a bit of a lead though if someone is chaseing you i guess.......

I didnt mean pulling it out just for show.......i know better than that....im just saying that if someone is trying to hurt you, but does not have a weapon.....would it be smart to pull out the blade?

Not if your goal is to intimidate. Only pull the weapon if you intend to use it (or think you may have to use it). And then keep it hidden from everyone as much as possible. At least, that's my advice.

On a side note, I have a feeling that this is where at least some of the stories of "magic" originated. Onlookers didn't see the small blade in the guy's hand, so they assumed he's making the guy bleed just by touching him. Especially if the blade wielder is good enough that he can conceal the blade again after the fight's over so that no one ever sees it or has reason to suspsect it. Add this to the supernatural beliefs of some of the people throughout history and, voila, you've got a guy with a type of "death touch." (I'm sure there are other sources for these stories, but I'd bet that this type of scenario accounts for at least some of the stories).

Mike

[Tcell]

I'd just like to add my two pennies worth.

There seems to be two different kinds of knife attacker.

The first is the guy/gal who wants you to see the knife & uses it as an intimidator (doesn't mean to say they wont cut you).

The other is the 'ambush' kind, they've decided that you are gonna get cut & go about it in a sucker punch fashion,
no warning just stab/slash/hack.

Now the first type is possible to combat (me, I'd run).
The second type well It doesn't really matter how skilled you are you're screwed.
That's where the old keeping your eyes open & wits about you comes in, but that's another story.

Cheers Jez

[SwampFox]

The idea of brandishing your blade was taken the wrong way, i think.

I meant that if you pull your knife out, (or knives, if applicable) the attacker may re-thing his or her choice of victims.....IE: a deterent(sp?) for possible attackers, it could difuse the situtation without having to cut anyone

[sikal]

Originally posted by SwampFox
The idea of brandishing your blade was taken the wrong way, i think.

I meant that if you pull your knife out, (or knives, if applicable) the attacker may re-thing his or her choice of victims.....IE: a deterent(sp?) for possible attackers, it could difuse the situtation without having to cut anyone

Yes, or it could escalate it (unnecessarily) and he may pull his gun and shoot you. Or back off, go get his gun out of his car, then shoot you. Or hit you in the back of the head with a baseball bat later.

And, from witnesses/legal perspective, if you pull a weapon and he's unarmed (or at least, doesn't have a visible weapon) then you suddenly become the aggressor, not the defender.

Mike

[SwampFox]

very good point.....