Sport Judo

[Thai Bri]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
What's the Japanese name for it?

Its called the Hunderhookie-Hoverhookie-AhsoSpunkySan. I named it after you.

Michael. I rate Judo, though it does seem to have an overly large Gyoko. Maybe its just for completeness, but some of those throws are rarely seen outside of a grading.

I was getting at you because you made the error that is made so often by people supporting their art. They say "my art would win, because I'd do this.....", and then outline a technique not found in their art. Can you see the lack of logic? But, in fairness to you, you have said that the principles are the same, which is reasonable.

[ryanhall]

you are very incorrect. I've used Judo on the street and so have my friends. Read on and learn a little something

I appreciate your attempt to educate me, but I'd appreciate it if you would not assume to. In fact, I am not incorrect. Evidently, you didn't take the time to look at my profile--it would have been too much work to check two, I assume.

I have also, on a handful of occasions, successfully used Judo throws to defend myself. Does this mean that I would endorse it as a method of self-defense? Hells no.

1) It's hard to throw someone considerably larger and stronger than you (drunks don't count).
2) Unless the assailant is wearing a jacket, his clothing will probably not hold up to the kuzushi used in Judo.
3) Many of Judo's throws turn your back to the opponent--not a wise thing to do.
4) Judo only focuses on the clinch (and only a fraction of that area) and a bit of grappling.
5) Judo players are not schooled in protecting themselves against strikes.
6) Judo players are not taught to strike anymore.

I wonder if you think that it would be easy for you to defeat a black belt in BJJ on the street

A BJJ blackbelt is quite a different person than a Judo blackbelt. The former has many skills that the latter does not. Also, if he wants to pretzel fight, yes, you would have a fair shot of making some of the nasty stuff work--provided that you had the skills (grappling, clinch, etc.) to fall back on once you created opportunity by ripping, gouging, whatever.

That said, there are people who are so good that you literally can't get a hand on them--they are not many, and they are not you. However, as long as you steer clear of Rickson Gracie, you should be in good shape.

The biggest pitfall that Judo and other sports have is that they only cover the fight once it has started. Though they do that well, they completely neglect the fact that they will be taken out of the fight before they know it has started by someone with a little street savvy. That's why I don't endorse Judo as self-defense. I think it is a good base to build from, and the attributes that you build there can serve you well. Still, it is not a system of self-preservation, but a sport with rules and regulations that is played between two consenting individuals who probably know one another before their match, not a random encounter with an unknown person who may or may not be armed and have friends in an area that was decided upon by the other party.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by ryanhall

I appreciate your attempt to educate me, but I'd appreciate it if you would not assume to. In fact, I am not incorrect. Evidently, you didn't take the time to look at my profile--

hahahahahahahaaha hahahahahhaha
you love you!

[IPON]

Originally posted by Great Sage


hook your nostrils while you try and throw me..

I have really long Nose hair so Iwould appreciate it

Seriously, you would not have teh tim to do these that is assuming your hands are free...as soon as you lift an arm I can throw or duck under and take you down.

So yes you are certainly better off nknowing judo than not. does it have application yes. Major weakness striking.....typical street art boxing. Can a judoka beat a boxer yes but not if you are static

Ryan I think it is a little styrong to say no aspects of Judo, if you say that then you must also think the BJJ has no value either. However, I will agree that I would not recommend Judo to someone as the first art if the sole purpose is for SD

I think you have to train for self defense mentallty and think which techniques may have real application for you.

[michaelarsanis]

Thai Bri,

I understand what you are saying but Judo as we know it today is a very dynamic and flexible art. New grips and attacks are constantly evolving as people look for alternate methods to win.

So any modern competitive judoka would not limit himself to the "traditional" techniques. There are all kinds of new grips and throws being used, (especially by the Europeans), that are not in the traditional cirriculum yet they are still considerd as judo.

So if I throw you with an underhook grip is is still judo because after all, it is the principles that stay the same and make judo "judo".

So with all respect, I disagree that I made that "error" that you thought I did.

[ryanhall]

IOPN,

Ryan I think it is a little styrong to say no aspects of Judo, if you say that then you must also think the BJJ has no value either

Wait just a minute there. I didn't say that. I completely recognize that Judo has many benefits to it in terms of self-defense training. Any sort of tough, full-contact training that makes you sweat is beneficial. Pain tolerance, blanance, an understanding of how the body moves, and a few things that you can potentially use can be nothing but beneficial. However, focusing on techniques is nothing but harmful.

I was just listing the pitfalls of Judo as a means of self-defense. As I stated, I have successfully defended myself using two Judo throws (O soto gari, o goshi) on a number of occasions. I find a lot of value in BJJ, boxing, wrestling, Thai, Sambo, Judo, and most combat sports. That said, I do not delude myself into believing that "if it's not used in the ring, it won't work in real life."

[jubaji]

Originally posted by IPON


I have really long Nose hair so Iwould appreciate it

*ouch

[IPON]

Originally posted by ryanhall
No, aspects of Judo are useful in self-defense.

Ryan - I neglected to see the comma after "no" sorry about that.

[Thai Bri]

You could trip your opponent up with your nose hair. And then strangle him with it.

Stick with me. I'll make a fighter out of you yet.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
You could trip your opponent up with your nose hair. And then strangle him with it.

s'not possible

[michaelarsanis]

Ryanhall,
yes I did look at your profile after the fact and I added an addendum to correct myself.

I find it rather amazing that you find BJJ so effective yet give poor value to Judo. Both arts wear a gi, both arts have takedowns, and both arts have submissions.

Most submissions are done on the ground. So to submit someone, you must first take them down. Judo allows you to take someone down quickly (certainly as quick or quicker than your average BJJer) and then you are on top of them where you can go for a lock or just pound them or whatever.

Yes, BJJ are much more efficient at groundwork, however, when fighting the average punk on the street, you will not need a huge repetroire of attacks as is present in BJJ but rather most likely rely on the basics, A good Judoka has a decent handle on the basics of ground control and submissions-thats all you really need against the average person. So I do not understand your logic about the two arts?!

Now let me address your points one by one:


1) It's hard to throw someone considerably larger and stronger than you (drunks don't count).

RESPONSE: No its not! The whole idea of judo is to use your opponent's strength against them. What does this mean? If your bigger and stronger than me, I wont fight you head to head. When you grab me and try to push me one way, I will offer some resistance. Your natural reaction will be to push HARDER-and thats when I switch gears and pull you THE OTHER WAY. You've already committed your weight in one direction and I've pulled you in that same direction. Guess what? You're gonna move that way easily and that commits your weight-which makes it very easy to throw you. Let me quote you: ........."That said, there are people who are so good that you literally can't get a hand on them--they are not many, and they are not you. However, as long as you steer clear of Rickson Gracie, you should be in good shape"........
Ah yes my friend you are correct. And the same goes for Judo!! There are some guys who are so good, that you just can't get a solid hold on them. Its like a bullfighter and you're the bull. You just cant get him! I'm not a small guy-six foot one 220lbs solid and I've been totally schooled by some guys who weigh only 150lbs! So size isn't everything. A good judo throw relies on balance and TIMING. I don't care how big you are, a well placed foot sweep or trip will put you down in a flash-effortlessly.


2) Unless the assailant is wearing a jacket, his clothing will probably not hold up to the kuzushi used in Judo.

RESPONSE: It is not necessart to hold onto his clothes to throw someone. Any type of clinch will allow you to use the judo principles to throw someone. I've already addressed this point earlier on this thread. Go back and read it please.


3) Many of Judo's throws turn your back to the opponent--not a wise thing to do.

RESPONSE: And many dont! Now it is important to note that without a gi, you will most likely grab by clinching (hugging the body somehow). When you throw from this position, because the other guy is SO close to you, he will turn with you and your back WILL NOT be exposed. I did an uchimata to my friend this way on the street. He wanted to test me out because he didn't believe I could do it. Try it yourself. Try an overhook and underhook grip and do uchimata. You will see that your back is NOT exposed because he will turn with you. It works! So you are off on that point.

4) Judo only focuses on the clinch (and only a fraction of that area) and a bit of grappling.

RESPONSE: Once again incorrect. Judo focuses on the clinch (upper body attacks) and also focuses on lower body attacks such as firemans, leg sweeps, leg trips and reaps. A variety of upper and lower body attacks and defenses are part of judo.

5) Judo players are not schooled in protecting themselves against strikes.

RESPONE: So what? The average person isn't either. And even someone who IS (like a boxer) will be in trouble if a judoka, wrestler or other grappler moves in on him for the takedown. There are many a wrestler who will take a punch or two to get in close and then mess someone up. BTW, the average BJJ guy doesn't practice on strikes either. Look how well the Gracies did in NHB against PROFESSIONAL STRIKERS!! I say the average judoka will do well against most striking just as the average BJJ guy will also do well.

6) Judo players are not taught to strike anymore.

RESPONSE: Same answer as above.

Your quote: "I don't endorse Judo as self-defense. I think it is a good base to build from, and the attributes that you build there can serve you well. Still, it is not a system of self-preservation, but a sport with rules and regulations that is played between two consenting individuals who probably know one another before their match, not a random encounter with an unknown person who may or may not be armed and have friends in an area that was decided upon by the other party."

The same can be said for BJJ.

If you value BJJ for the street, than you must also value Judo for the street. They are of the same mold.

P.S. Can we leave the weapons and multiple opponents rhetoric out of it?!

[Thai Bri]

jubaji - I was joking............ Just being the bogey man.

[IPON]

SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEESSSSSSSHHHHHH Bri you will ruin my hustle and I am 3 days late with the rent

I charge the uneducated and and undeserving $100per/hr to learn these sacred techniques of levitation, mystisism and Ninja Nostril knockouts

check my dojo web site

https://www.urAdumbassdot.com

[IPON]

Originally posted by jubaji


s'not possible

Well you havenot seen my nose hair. I routinely jump rope, hunt fish, and sew with it....and the ladies love it. So Training my nose hair for combat is just a natural progression of my mutation

[IPON]

and yes I am joking as well