My Take on Karate

[nolimitskarate]

And three on one sparring at 80% contact? Seems that at least three of your guys must be wimps. I would love to see it, and would bet a hefty sum that their so called attacks are carefully designed to give him a chance. Three people could beat one without any striking at all, merely by rushing at and grabbing/wrestling a guy to the ground.

Three guys rushing you - and possibly taking you to the ground - does not eliminate the positive aspects of the drill. It's very possible that this may happen in the street - so what are you going to do then? - Actually thats a great Idea - I think I'll use it tonight.

As for the the 80% contact - again - this drill is meant to show the defender what he may have to face in the street. If three thugs jump you it's a good bet your going to get hit - repeatedly. I would rather they find out what it feels like in class and be prepared for it - rather than wait until it's to late.

The attacks are not carefully designed - the agressor can use whatever attacks they like (punches, kicks, knees, etc.....) - note: we are not trying to break bones, but get an Idea of what you really must face.

Your only arument that I've seen so far is that my guys must be wimps - not a valid argument given the above points.

[nolimitskarate]

You make lots of declarations that this or that is effective. But you can never say "how" it is. Whereas I give you bucket fulls of "how" it isn't.

Wrong - I have made several points on effectiveness - you pass over them and pick the statements that are easy for you to berate and dispute with senseless accusations - go back and read the whole thread ......

[nolimitskarate]

Try this. Pop into a Thai Boxing gym, and then a BJJ type class. Spar and roll with the students. No threats, no aggression. All under some kind of rules.

I have not had opprutunity to be in a thai boxing gym - although I don't dispute there toughness based on what I've seen of them.

Howevor, I do have several folks that I work out with in the Jiu Jitsu arena - and (2) Instructors that work out with us semi-reguraly. Again I Don't dispute the effectiveness of this style - I am defending points made about another style - I believe they each have a place.

Saying that a particular style is ineffective because another is effective is not a rational argument - one does not discount the other - they are just different.

[Thai Bri]

Yoiur kidding yourself, and using your intellect to hide from the knowledge. Remember, I have been there.

Just get to the Thai and BJJ camp. Let reality talk.

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
Yoiur kidding yourself, and using your intellect to hide from the knowledge. Remember, I have been there.

Just get to the Thai and BJJ camp. Let reality talk.

K - your repeating yourself again - I get the point those guys are tough, and they teach very effective techniques - still does not make what I'm doing ineffective .......

[Thai Bri]

It does, and it is very irresponsible.

I have to repeat myself, because you're always avoiding the issue.

You are teaching people martial arts. They trust you to teach them how to look after themselves.

But you waste all their time with counter productive training methods that, I might add, they are paying you for.

MT and BJJ hold far better ways of training than the shite you describe, but you want to write it all off with the illogical "Its not better, just different".

It is better. Thai guys don't lose to semi contact air punching tag players. BJJ guys don't neither. And either of their training methods would physically prepare your students for a street fight far far better than the crap they are paying you to teach them.

Like I said. Go and see for yourself, if your ego can take it. I did, and although it was hard at first, it is obvious to me that I did the right thing.

But you want to keep your head in an intellectual bucket of sane. Your "Is it false confidence" thread is one of the saddest threads I have ever seen, anywhere.

Go and try those classes. Give them 3 months. If you want to carry on marching up and down and dancing like a robot after that, fine. But at least have the decenc not to take money off people for teaching them how to do it.

[nolimitskarate]

It is better. Thai guys don't lose to semi contact air punching tag players. BJJ guys don't neither. And either of their training methods would physically prepare your students for a street fight far far better than the crap they are paying you to teach them.

Don't disagree that these training methods are valid - as I've stated before - we work many different ways of training in - including jiu-jitsu, judo, kickboxing, etc .... - if you consider what were doing crap, that is your perogative - and an opion with wich I disagree. I have been in many different schools, with many different instructors and styles - and I use and pass on what I find to be the most effective techniques. From each style.

[nolimitskarate]

Like I said. Go and see for yourself, if your ego can take it. I did, and although it was hard at first, it is obvious to me that I did the right thing.

Again - unfortunately we don't have a MT school around, I would love to go see how they train - just not an availible resource right now. - Enjoy working the other though - like I said before, this one is not my preffered way so I have to work harder at it - but still enjoy it.

[nolimitskarate]

But you want to keep your head in an intellectual bucket of sane. Your "Is it false confidence" thread is one of the saddest threads I have ever seen, anywhere.

Waaaahhhhh -

[IPON]

Originally posted by nolimitskarate
The Black Belt candidates tested all week long. Each of the five days we worked out for approximately 6 to 8 hours with a break for lunch.

My second Black Belt (a different stylye) was more recent and perhaps a more strenous test. This test was accomplished in one day (6 - 7 hours).

This was perhaps one of the most strenous and physically taxing things I have ever done - and I will say this - I most definately did not "Buy" my rank ........

6-8 hrs a day damn!!! How was the second BB more demanding?? or was the first BB not intensive becuase it was spreadout over so many days and why was it spread-out? No Flame just curious

[nolimitskarate]

Thai Bri -

Case in point - I have a woman that works with us who related this story to me last night - she is a school teacher. About two weeks ago she was confronted by a male student who was quite a bit larger than she. After some verbal abuse the student tried to grab her. She was able to put him in an arm bar and keep him restrained until the school security guard could assist. She did not do any permanent physical damage to the student, this could have led to some bad scenarios - but she was able to defend herself.

- but I guess she has no right to be confident in her abilities - since she's only being taught s**t - ah well ...........

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by IPON


6-8 hrs a day damn!!! How was the second BB more demanding?? or was the first BB not intensive becuase it was spreadout over so many days and why was it spread-out? No Flame just curious

I felt like the second was more physically demanding because everything was done in one day, in succession with little rest in between.

The first was spread out over several days - maybe sparring one day and forms another, etc.... with breaks for lunch, dinner, etc... then a good nights sleep to recharge. Not to say it wasn't rigourous - I just felt like doing everything back to back in one day was more demanding.

It was spread out because it was a camp for all belt levels, not just the candidates - It was a great way to spend some "time off" from the regular job and get in some in depth training. Also was a great way to get to meet students from many other schools that you would not likely get to meet otherwise.

Thanks for the question ---------/ Respect

[IPON]

Originally posted by nolimitskarate
"I don't consider the confidence I instill in my students “false confidence”

I understand Bri Point and I think you are both correct in terms of what each is arguing.

No limits: yes karate, MAs in general, (even a McDojo) are great for instilling confidence. Women, children, handicapped, the average joe. The personal/emotional, health, and life benefits of any MA are numerous agreed. And then there is the self defense aspect...Enter the Thai Bri.

Thai Bri: indictes that non direct and pointless training can instill false confidence and he is correct. Why is it false? If someone where to us these techniques, generally speaking, they would not be able to apply them in a real fight or life threatening situation. I can't tell you how many time I seen a TKD guy get KO'd by a boxer or just a street fighter. The TKD stylist is certainly better equipped with techniques, but they think that what work in tournaments or in the dojang translates to practical use in the street or SD situation.

I think also the context is not with individuals without any training but against people who are trained or even just the average street figeter/boxer/brawler

So in the sense that people think that can really defend themselves when they in fact probably cannot does instill false confidence.

Just my 2 cents

[IPON]

Originally posted by nolimitskarate
As for the the 80% contact - again - this drill is meant to show the defender what he may have to face in the street. If three thugs jump you it's a good bet your going to get hit - repeatedly. I would rather they find out what it feels like in class and be prepared for it - rather than wait until it's to late.

Again this realtes to the false confidence Bri referred. Are the studdents really going 80% with committment which means if they are realistically blocking and punching/kicking, etc. So, if a punch is thrown and a block is missed the student will have a sore jaw in teh moring. If they are pulling punches prior to hittng how can someone know they can really effectively punch or block.
80% is very nearly full speed so it would be 3 people rushing at the same time near full speed so if this is not a MA movie I would expect an anmbulance for the attackee

Again no flame, I am just trying to clarify so of this so we can move to better discussion.

[IPON]

No Limits: another quest what is the name of the style you teach.
I assume karate. Is it issenRyu as the foundation with techiques from the other arts you learned incporated or have you rcreated a separate system