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But its quality that counts. Everyone claims to do these things. But few do them effectively. And those that do no longer use Kata etc.
Are you getting it yet?
Are you getting it yet?
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Believe me I am no fan of kata! As for punching thin air I remember back on my MT training, I remember my instructor showing me how to jab correctly and practicing in front of the mirror watching and making corrections on my technique, and shadow boxing. We would spend hours in front of the mirror going over our techniques. We would practice with focus mitts and on the heavy bag then finally sparring.
Karate does basically the same thing just in a slightly different way. Milk before meat. Learn proper techniques in a methodical fashion. Performing the techniques in the air, in front of a mirror, then on mitts/bags and finally against another opponent. Not much different from what we did in wrestling or MT.
I think Karate schools can be effective at teaching self-defense if the instructor can pull his head out of his ass long enough not to be afraid of innovation and teach practical techniques and strategies in a realistic manner. However seldom they do. It’s always allegiance to the party line, that’s why most are bad at teaching effective self-defense. Karate instructors far too often are like monkeys teaching only the things they were taught and teaching them the same way they were taught. You can teach a monkey to push the buttons but that doesn’t mean he understands what he’s doing or can think for himself.
As for katas I certainly could do just fine with out them, or at least make them optional and not part of a belt promotion test.Comment
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You obviously can't get past this ........Originally posted by Thai Bri
But its quality that counts. Everyone claims to do these things. But few do them effectively. And those that do no longer use Kata etc.
Are you getting it yet?
Kata or no Kata - it has no bearing on how hard we work the other aspects - You are the one who is not getting it. We practice and we practice hard - and effectively.
Everything we practice servers a purpose - some focus on different areas then others - you won't let the Kata thing go, that's fine some like them some don't - but for me they help me become more focuses, it's a visualization thing (I guess visualizations ok when your shadow boxing - becaus Thai Bri approves of it - but at no other time).
You harp and harp on 2 of many aspects of the training methods I've discussed because you don't like them - but refuse to address the rest .......
Typical.Comment
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DN - this echos many of the points that I've been trying to make - as I've said - Karate is my style of choice - this does not mean I close my mind to other styles or training methods. -- As for the Katas - again, some like them some don't - but I won't argue that particular aspect any further on this board as the last thread I opened on it got shut down - guess it's a dead horse.Originally posted by darrianation
Believe me I am no fan of kata! As for punching thin air I remember back on my MT training, I remember my instructor showing me how to jab correctly and practicing in front of the mirror watching and making corrections on my technique, and shadow boxing. We would spend hours in front of the mirror going over our techniques. We would practice with focus mitts and on the heavy bag then finally sparring.
Karate does basically the same thing just in a slightly different way. Milk before meat. Learn proper techniques in a methodical fashion. Performing the techniques in the air, in front of a mirror, then on mitts/bags and finally against another opponent. Not much different from what we did in wrestling or MT.
I think Karate schools can be effective at teaching self-defense if the instructor can pull his head out of his ass long enough not to be afraid of innovation and teach practical techniques and strategies in a realistic manner. However seldom they do. It’s always allegiance to the party line, that’s why most are bad at teaching effective self-defense. Karate instructors far too often are like monkeys teaching only the things they were taught and teaching them the same way they were taught. You can teach a monkey to push the buttons but that doesn’t mean he understands what he’s doing or can think for himself.
As for katas I certainly could do just fine with out them, or at least make them optional and not part of a belt promotion test.Comment
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Harp on about it? You started it, but cannot convince the better fighters of its worth. And why? BECAUUSE THEY'VE ALL OUTGROWN IT.
And stop saying that you're not going to go on anymore. Because you get right back in it.
ps - the visualisation of shadow boxing is worlds apart from the visualisation of a pre arranged and repetitive zombie like movement.Comment
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True - and I'll let it go as soon as you find another issue to discuss as well I proposed several about 5 posts ago:Originally posted by Thai Bri
Harp on about it? You started it, but cannot convince the better fighters of its worth. And why? BECAUUSE THEY'VE ALL OUTGROWN IT.
And stop saying that you're not going to go on anymore. Because you get right back in it.
ps - the visualisation of shadow boxing is worlds apart from the visualisation of a pre arranged and repetitive zombie like movement.
1) Bag / Target Training is ineffective or inefficient ?? (you seem to think it's ok for the MT guys .......)
2) Contact Sparring ??
4) Multi - opponent sparring?
5) Simulated / Reality based training?
6) Grappling, throws, holds, bars?
So let's start with Number 1 .......
Do you refuet that this is an effective training method yes, and if so why?Comment
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Obviously not.Originally posted by Thai Bri
But its quality that counts. Everyone claims to do these things. But few do them effectively. And those that do no longer use Kata etc.
Are you getting it yet?Comment
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Originally posted by Thai Bri
Obviously not.
Answer the question Thai Bri - if it's not outside the realm of your limited view - is bag training effective or not? You say it is for MT fighters - does this not apply to anbody else?
Come on man - I really want to know.Comment
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Like I said. Quality counts.
Anyone can hit a bag, but not everyone can train effectively with it. If you cannot see that it really does illustrate my point.Comment
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I agree - quality counts - so define what you mean by quality. Visualisation, working combinations, hooks, upper-cuts, what?? What defines quality for you?Originally posted by Thai Bri
Like I said. Quality counts.
Anyone can hit a bag, but not everyone can train effectively with it. If you cannot see that it really does illustrate my point.Comment
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So - let's talk about bag work some more - here is what might be a typical workout:
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Working some basics (jabs, head punches, low kicks) to warm up and get started. 5 - 10 minutes.
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Then start building on with combinations - (40 to 45 minutes - minimal breaks in between sets).
Maybe a low round kick to draw the oponents hand down in a common to defend - then a jab to the head - hook to the middle body (kidneys?) - then maybe an upper cut to finish.
Working in different tecniques and combinations into the bag work (I.e. knee strikes, power punches, elbow strikes, etc....)
Nothing fancy - just basic speed and power techniques.
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Finish up with some Ab Work, push ups, dips, etc....
Then stretching ...
Done.
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So you tell me where you think this is effective or ineffective.Comment
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If you can keep it up for 45 minutes - ineffective.Comment
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Huh?? -Comment
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I think what your getting at is that if you are working at a level where you can keep up the bag work for 45 minutes your not working hard enough????
If you get to a point where you are finishing easily in 45 minutes - then I agree - and you need to start pushing yourself harder - hitting harder, etc.... 45 minutes is the time frame becuase thats what fits in the class time - breaks between sets can be longer or shorter depending on intensity.
Obviously the shorter the better .....
but for the workout to be effective you need to be hitting it hard pushing yourself as much as possible.
So I still don't see a valid argument why this is not efficient.Comment
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Also,
We do not always work bag work the entire work out period - we may work bag work to get started then move on to sparring, etc...
The question revolves primarily around the use of techniques and the intensity of the work out - if you are pushing yourself it's effective - if your playing it's not ......
So - I think on this point we can agree - this method is effective if you train with the proper techniques and good intensity.
Yeah or neah?Comment
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