Karate Kids !

[wardancer]

. Some karate techniques would get a kid whooped in a streetfight,and it would lower self esteem, especially after he thinks he can defend himself and other people think he is a good fighter because he takes karate. situation.

What karate techniques are you talking about?

[wardancer]

I get amazed about the amount of Karate Bashing in this Forum.
it's like "Hell, yes let's blame everything on Karate" and you get people going on and on about it. A Karate Kid that gets his ass whooped is just a bad fighter. Most times, a tree is a tree. Stop looking for excuses for poor performance.

[AlexJitsu]

Judo requires strength, people do no get thrown around by judokas with no strength: they simply do not fall on their own.

Trust me, it requires little to no strength. Their own balance is disturbed, thus they fall. A martial art that requires muscle kind of sucks, you know what I mean?

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Trust me, it requires little to no strength. Their own balance is disturbed, thus they fall. A martial art that requires muscle kind of sucks, you know what I mean?

disturbing the balance of a much bigger oponent isn't as easy as it looks though

[sherwinc]

Trust me, it requires little to no strength. Their own balance is disturbed, thus they fall. A martial art that requires muscle kind of sucks, you know what I mean?

Judo really requires strength when throwing their opponent to the ground.....

TaiChi requires no strength when throwing opponent to the ground.....

Here are the Reasons/Comparisons:
1. In Judo = the Judo lift the opponent before throwing to the ground
while...
2. In TaiChi = the TaiChi push the opponent to the ground in a downward ways (and not by lifting commonly done by Judo's)

Note:
The only thing i am impressed with these Judo art is the zero"0" gravity of falling techniques.....

when my sparring partner hits me and i loose my balance, i immediately execute the falling techniques of Judo (even thou i hate the art of Judo)

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Judo really requires strength when throwing their opponent to the ground.....

TaiChi requires no strength when throwing opponent to the ground.....

Here are the Reasons/Comparisons:
1. In Judo = the Judo lift the opponent before throwing to the ground
while...
2. In TaiChi = the TaiChi push the opponent to the ground in a downward ways (and not by lifting commonly done by Judo's)

Again you don't feel hindered by limited knowledge of other arts
De Ashi barai...where is the lift?
the loss of balance is the force in lots of judo throws, use it properly and barely any strength is needed for the throw itself

As for the tai chi way, we were talking kids here, I don't see a kid being able to perform that against a bigger bully

[wardancer]

Trust me, it requires little to no strength. Their own balance is disturbed, thus they fall. A martial art that requires muscle kind of sucks, you know what I mean?

I know what you mean.
But saying Judo throws requires little to no strengh is a understament.
The concept would be to ideally use the oponent momentum to throw him off balance but to do so you still need a certain amount of strength just to get him off balance. e.g. push him back so he leans foward then using his momentum foward, pulling him foward would use no generated power...but still you need enough power to push him back and then enough grip/strengh to control of taking him down when he leans foward.

[Thai Bri]

I get amazed about the amount of Karate Bashing in this Forum.
it's like "Hell, yes let's blame everything on Karate" and you get people going on and on about it. A Karate Kid that gets his ass whooped is just a bad fighter. Most times, a tree is a tree. Stop looking for excuses for poor performance.

This is yet another example of a person putting the art BEFORE human beings. We are not here to make Karate work in a self defence situation. It isn't the persons failings if his Age Uke and Jodan Mawashi Geri result in him seeing the dentist every week for a year. Karate is supposedly here to help US survive.

The fault lies with the dilting of an art withg the sole intent of bringing it to the masses and making money. The average Karateka could not fight my Auntie Mary.

[wardancer]

Why not.
Well, a high roundhouse kick has been a good technique in K1.
Please use english term for karate, I and other readers might not understand why you use the terms of a MA you despise!

[darrianation]

darrianations point about kids cannot fight off adults, was a bit off the point!
You must learn to defend yourself against your own age group before you can worry about adult attackers!
The main aim of a childs self defence is to make them confident in situations of confrontation/bullying.

If you think I was off point then I think I didn’t make my point clear enough.

My point is that self-esteem is by far better for kids when it comes to self-defense than any martial art. Everyone seems to think it's about confidence but it’s not. If you have self-esteem than confidence comes with it. That was my point. Also I gave some tips on how to develop your child’s self-esteem as well as to deal with bullies and etc.

As far as a self- defense system I am of the lines that Judo, or wrestling go much further, and believe it or not they prefer grappling. Kids when they play fight it almost always turns to wrestling. I have daily karate matches with my kids because that’s one of their favorite things to do with dad. Our karate matches are 90% wrestling. So for kids I would say:
1) Judo
2) Wrestling
3) Boxing
4) Karate

I agree with Toud Karate can lead to other MAs later down the line. I started Judo at age 11 and when that closed (I had done Judo only for 4 months) I went into karate at age 12 (I enjoyed judo more) and at the age of 17 I began Muay Thai.

[CKD]

What I meant is most karate techniques will get you beat is, kets face it, most karate schools are not going to teach you good fighting skills unless its a Kyoukushin school or an offshoot. The art does play some importance. If Royce went into the UFC using shotokan do you think he would have won? No way. Chances are if a kid goes to a karate dojo he will learn stances and chambered punches. Even if he did learn some practical stuff, he would probaly be tackled or wrestled to the ground. If he did not know what to do he could end up hurt.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

ground.....

TaiChi requires no strength when throwing opponent to the ground.....

Here are the Reasons/Comparisons:
1. In Judo = the Judo lift the opponent before throwing to the ground
while...
2. In TaiChi = the TaiChi push the opponent to the ground in a downward ways (and not by lifting commonly done by Judo's)

Note:
The only thing i am impressed with these Judo art is the zero"0" gravity of falling techniques.....

when my sparring partner hits me and i loose my balance, i immediately execute the falling techniques of Judo (even thou i hate the art of Judo)

I love how you can switch any thread into a "Tai Chi is better than all other MA thread." I wish I could be as good as you.

[AlexJitsu]

...and wrong again, we don't lift in Judo. When doing a hip throw, you just bend your back and a person of any weight automatically falls on your back and is lifted off their toes. Almost no strength required.

[CHOKE UK]

Some very good replies from Toudiyama, ckd and Thai bri.

And i'm afraid some not so good ones!

So karate is now only 2nd best self defence to tai Chi?

God help any kids you train!

A word of advice, if you do ever train any kids then you had better give them a large bag of tasty sweets to go to school with, because it's the only way they will stop the bully-boy!

Regarding Judo, and the zero per cent strength?
As Toudi touched on, good techniques require less brute force.
But also strength can compensate for lack of techniique.

You ever tried moves that you are very good at against a very large and very strong person?
You may find that your proven-technique suddenly doesnt work so well.
Brute force is often undervalued!
However if the strength and size are fairly similar,
then yes if one has superior technique the tables can be reversed!
It is a very good idea to /grapple/spar/freefight with a much bigger and stronger opponent,you will learn so much.

My kids practice with both me and my wife, and I have genuinely been choked out and tapped by my eldest!

judo and wrestling are both very hands-on, and as a result are far superior to karate as self-defence!

It's ironic that the best known of kids self defence is karate.

Then again the best known food for kids is Mcdonalds!

What does that tell us about whats best for our kids?

McDonalds, food with the goodness taken out!

karate, self-defence with the self-defence taken out!

CHA-CHA-CHA!

[AlexJitsu]

Some severely obese punk grabbed me once, and I did o sotogari and he went down like a feather. He hit his head on the concrete, nearly knocked him out.