Mas Oyama vs Helio Gracie(in their primes)

[Garland]

Look at his frame. The man was a monster. He got bigger with age too. Scary scary.

[Garland]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MapyZq4YIo[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wynsquQWQvU[/YOUTUBE]

this one kicks ass...groovy tunes
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dHfFc8mPwE&mode=related&search=[/YOUTUBE]

there is no doubt in my mind he was one of the hardest hitters of the modern era...boxers included. The man was a fucking beast.

warm up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrXjM1HZ7Zs

100 man kumite? Jesus.

[Thai Bri]

It was on this site soemwhere. Do a search!

[SamuraiGuy]

Yeah, I'd like to see this bull footage, I find it hard to believe.

I've seen a guy hit a bull in the face with a sledge hammer before and it didnt kill it.

Now... the bull was running at him and he couldnt get away so he sledge hammer it (was putting up fence posts).

I think he ended up with a broken back or something.

Anyway, sledge hammer is smaller than a fist in PSI terms... and while it may not have been the cleanest shot, it definetly hit it in the head, and when a bulls running at you, you swing that thing hard.

Didnt drop the bull, or kill it.

[Thai Bri]

One hit, certain death, my man. That says it all.

Really? Who did he kill?

I've seen footage of his bull fights too. He wrassled these half starved pitiful sized beasts to the floor like a very average cowboy.... and then killed them whilst they were helpless. Hardly the typical image of chop chop chopping a charging killing machin, is it?

[Uke]

...Just think...jump in there with Helio and just tap as soon as he touches you...or try and play dead with Oyama...kind of like how you deal with a grizzley bear.

Hahahahaha ... you mean like in boxing when there's a phantom punch?

[Garland]

That's a hell of a beating to take just for bragging rights.

...Just think...jump in there with Helio and just tap as soon as he touches you...or try and play dead with Oyama...kind of like how you deal with a grizzley bear.

[Uke]

...I would so sign up for a match with Helio or Oyama back in the day. I could be all like... "Oh, yeah? Well I got the shit kicked out of me by Mas Oyama. Or Helio choked me out...what now?! Who wants my autograph?"

That's a hell of a beating to take just for bragging rights.

[Garland]

...I would so sign up for a match with Helio or Oyama back in the day. I could be all like... "Oh, yeah? Well I got the shit kicked out of me by Mas Oyama. Or Helio choked me out...what now?! Who wants my autograph?"

[Uke]

ooooooohhh... I never thought about that...

so you think oyama challenged Helio gracie??

that is interesting

Kimura was Oyama's friend and mentor. And to a degree, Thai Bri is right. Oyama's hands were deformed from extreme conditioning. But damaged? They weren't damaged to a degree that they weren't near perfect for combat. One hit, certain death, my man. That says it all.

And by the way, did anyone know both Kado and Kimura threw Helio Gracie around like a rag doll in their matches? Even though Kado lost to an eventual choke, he had executed techniques that in his native Japan would have won him the match. My point is that Helio Gracie, while being adept at chokes and armbars from newaza range, was no match for a well trained judoka on his feet. Oyama had extensive experience as a judoka(4th dan) and had dozens of matches against similarly trained judoka in his 270 unbeaten no holds barred matches against judoka, boxers, wrestlers and karate fighters. That goes to prove that Oyama had more than his share of fighting experience with grapplers and their tactics. Those matches took place in America in 1952, one year after Helio lost to Kimura. Many were televised.

Helio certainly knew of Oyama, as Oyama had sent students to Brazil and abroad to represent his way of karate. But Helio wanted no part of Oyama. In fact, its my understanding that Helio was dealing with his own issues after being knocked out by Aldemar Santana a year before Kimura returned to Brazil to fight Santana to a draw.

[Garland]

That was really good, did you come up with that?

uh...yeah. like, p'sha.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Well 7r14ngL3Ch0k3, you know that my vote would have to go to Oyama. Keep in mind that Oyama welcomed all comers back when Helio and his family were supposedly doing the same. I don't think it was any coincidence that the Gracie family missed a match with Oyama. Especially after having felt the quality of Kimura's training.

Kimura, like Oyama, was a training fanatic.

I wasnt sure if Oyama and Helio were in the same time period, but since they lived really far apart, that would be why they never fought.

Im not sure how good Helio was at taking guys down, let alone knowing how to properly avoid strikes and time/set up the takedown, but if it did go to the ground, i still dont think Helio could have finished him.

Oyama by brutal KO

Does anyone have any footage of Oyama?

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

What if Helio and Oyama had a kid with Bruce Lee?
What if that kid trained under Leo Gaje?
What if it was raised by wolves and ate nothing but gunpowder and raw meat everyday? What if all it had to drink was blood, Jameson whiskey, and the tears of wounded grisley bears?

Then it would be Vin Deisel.

That was really good, did you come up with that?

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Old school karateka were proficient judoka too, right?

I don't know if that was a general truth, but Oyama certainly was. If i try to give any specifics off the top of my head Uke will just end up having to correct me, but i know Oyama was a top class judoka in his own right, and in older kyokushin footage you can see the influence is still there.

[Thai Bri]

Oyama couldn't tie his shoelaces. Gracie would get inside those damaged hands, take him down and snap his arm off.