Sword Arts

[bodhisattva]

The short answer is that there really isn't any practical application for the sword in today's society. It's an obsolete weapon that's impractical to carry, limited in its use, and clumsy by comparison to more modern self-protection options. Not only is it hiughly unlikely that an occasion would ever arise that you'd face a sword, it is also highly unlikely that if you did, a sword would be the best answer.

If you're looking for something that will "translate into other improvised weapons," then you're better off learning something that doesn't rely on an edge. Learn a stick art, because almost everything you can imagine using as an improvised weapon will be blunt, not edged. There's a difference not only in technique, but the result, of dragging a long blade across a person and smacking him with a stick-like club. You need to be prepared for a different kind of follow-up with a stick than you do with a blade.

If you're looking for something that's fun to do, sword arts can have a lot of benefits. If you want something that can give you a bit of a workout without being too tough on you, they have some benefits. You just can't confuse benefit with practicality.

Wholly agree.

Functional Stick art = Utility, and even useful if you somehow either had a sword, or had to face someone who has a sword.

Sword art = Fun! No utility!

Wire Antenna = Looking stupid and getting your ass beat while holding onto an antenna

Broom = Good for sweeping and deadly in "kid kung fu movies" but usually not heavy enough to deliver a whuppin' in my experience - unless some dirt or dust bunnies attack you - then sweep em up, brotha!

[bodhisattva]

5 years in prison for carrying a knife, forget it, why risk it,
if things get really bad dress up as batman and no one will mess with you.

People don't get five years in prison for using a knife, much less for having one.

People don't get five years for carrying a gun illegally.

People get less than five years for shooting people.


I don't think you're going to do time if found with a knife - but I really don't recommend packing one.

[bodhisattva]

However, I personally feel like most martial artists suffer from a delerious sickness that makes them feel like they've got to prepare for some kind of nuclear holocaust of a streetfight that'll never ever happen as long as they live.

Also known as fear or paranoia usually present in men who were not athletic and humiliated often as kids. I don't find it much around the SBGi crowd.

We martial artists are delusional and maniacally egotistical in the way we tend to pursue our Holy Grail of "Fighting Effectiveness" and we almost always refuse to acknowledge that the average person will never ever have to deal with the kinds of fights we say we're preparing for, or the fact that they're going to spend hundreds of times the dollar amount on lessons and seminars as they'd ever lose in a mugging. It kills our egos to think that maybe there are some valid reasons for training that don't involve killing people with our bare hands or tapping guys out in a competition. But the simple fact is, there are more martial arts out there that suck for fighting than there are martial arts that will help you fight, and most of them are littered with devoted practitioners who really love what they do.

I train in an art that has utility, and quit worrying about the "Mugging and death" mentality. At the training circle, we train because it's fun to train. We do make sure our game is tight, so if we have to use it, it will be there. But there is little reason to dream up dark scenarios after you find something that has utility in itself. Just have fun and play games. The Judo guys understand this better than anyone in my opinion. "Want to Play?" is how they ask if you want to fight. That's beautiful, and healthy, and free of ego, image or paranoia

No one's ego need be attached to his fighting. Fighting needn't be about image, nor does anyone's ego need be killed.

I've said it before: There are as many valid reasons for training in martial arts as there are people who do it. Not everyone needs to be Chuck Liddell or Bruce Lee. Some people just flat out like the cameraderie of being around like-minded people who want to have some fun doing something unique.

Which is totally fine, so long as the teacher isn't collecting people's money to teach them a "martial art" that sucks for fighting. Because that is not only fraud, but its going to get some people put in the hospital.

In the end analysis, I'd submit to you that it's all just about doing what we like anyway.

Totally agree. But "what we like" may not be very "martial."

I realize that without being able to hear my tone of voice or see the smile on my face right now, that post may come across as a little belligerent

You? Belligerent? Please. That would be like saying *I* am belligerent.

Oh, crap. I often am.

[RAB]

I don't agree with anyone that says it is impractical. That is like say martial art is impractical and that would be a shame that so many people here waste their time playing.

Martial arts is about timing, distance, leverage and momentum. It doesn't matter what you call your style. The physical and practical aspects of focus on TDLM. For example, if you practice Judo then LM are more important than TD. If you practice kickboxing then TD are more important than LM. But I don't care if you the "great palm of incredible vibation," in order to make it practical you use martial skill - TDLM.

Swords are effective tools to move you to the next level. If I came at you with a sword everything is much faster, more threatening, and your brain sensory response is shorter. That requires a greater level of martial skill.

[Tant01]

Actually...

Wholly agree.

Functional Stick art = Utility, and even useful if you somehow either had a sword, or had to face someone who has a sword.

Sword art = Fun! No utility!

Wire Antenna = Looking stupid and getting your ass beat while holding onto an antenna

Broom = Good for sweeping and deadly in "kid kung fu movies" but usually not heavy enough to deliver a whuppin' in my experience - unless some dirt or dust bunnies attack you - then sweep em up, brotha!

You've never been whipped with a wire antenna, eh? Never had your teeth knocked out with broom stick?

You're right Bodhi.... I must have looked stupid fighting with improvised weapons...

[RAB]

this sounds like a good poll.

who has been struck with

a. bat

b. pencil

c. knife

d. wire object

e. all of the above

I'm E, I'm E, that me! I was a stupid as a kid and probably deserve getting hit.

[RAB]

I can agree with you.

[Tant01]

this sounds like a good poll.

who has been struck with

a. bat

b. pencil

c. knife

d. wire object

e. all of the above

I'm E, I'm E, that me! I was a stupid as a kid and probably deserve getting hit.

You forgot brick, 2X4, and scissors...

[RAB]

Can a rock qualify as a brick?

[Guest]

People don't get five years in prison for using a knife, much less for having one.

People don't get five years for carrying a gun illegally.

People get less than five years for shooting people.


I don't think you're going to do time if found with a knife - but I really don't recommend packing one.

Before you start quoting facts about the law to people, which lets face it is a relatively important subject, it might be an idea to know what country we are talking about.

Ghost, (from the UK) was telling nathanrd (from the UK) - about UK law on knife crime. Several new bills have been passed, one of them increasing the jail sentence for possession of a knife to 5 years. They are also removing the paperwork associated with Stop and Search for offensive weapons, to make it easier for the Officers.

[Tant01]

Dude... it's bodhi(?)

Before you start quoting facts about the law to people, which lets face it is a relatively important subject, it might be an idea to know what country we are talking about.

Ghost, (from the UK) was telling nathanrd (from the UK) - about UK law on knife crime. Several new bills have been passed, one of them increasing the jail sentence for possession of a knife to 5 years. They are also removing the paperwork associated with Stop and Search for offensive weapons, to make it easier for the Officers.

Are you asking HIM to think before he spews his so called "facts"?

LMAO

[bodhisattva]

Are you asking HIM to think before he spews his so called "facts"?

LMAO

Yeah, Tant, I find LOADS OF PEOPLE on web forums think real hard before they spew their opinions and views.

I mean, that's why we all log on, right? To create complex appendices and bibliography supporting our facts and opinions - that's what web forums are for..

But me, I'm the only one (yeah, right...) who just speaks freely. So, single me out. Good idea.

Tant, just because I think Kata and TMA are fraudulent practices for schools to sell as Martial Art Training doesn't mean you have to be a pissy-boy forever. Quit pouting, quit rolling your eyes like a child, and get over it.

[bodhisattva]

Before you start quoting facts about the law to people, which lets face it is a relatively important subject, it might be an idea to know what country we are talking about.

Yeah, that's a pretty good point. In fact, in this country (US) it's good to even know what state the person is from...

[bodhisattva]

That's the reason I drew a clear line between "practical" and "beneficial." Sword fighting is impractical. Look up the definition of "practical" and you'll see that's true. HOWEVER:

Beneficial is a different animal. Practicing sword arts can have a host of benefits, and that's for each individual to decide. I mean in the end, if the only thing a person wants to do is dress up in a hakama and wear a samurai sword around and they find true happiness in that - COOL! Happiness is a tangible, valuable benefit. More power to them. Where Bodhi and I agree completely and without exception is that it is dangerous to confuse "practical" with "beneficial." If you think that the practice of medieval swordsmanship, longsword and buckler, or samurai sword arts is going to have an immediate and direct practicality, you're functioning under dangerous assumptions.

I am not saying that practicality should be one's only consideration in choosing an art, mind you. I think personal fulfillment should outrank it by leagues. However, if you decide that practicality for modern combat IS your priority, then choosing a sword art to fulfill that need is a little, well, dumb.

Yeah, I couldn't argue your point because of that fine line. "Benefits" and "practical for fight training" are very different.

Another place we agree completely is that if people ENJOY doing impractical martial art - then more power to them. I think people should do anything they enjoy - the world can be tough and if someone can find some pleasure or happiness doing something that doesn't hurt or infringe on the will of another - right on!

The place we disagree (I think) is I tend to hold it against instructors who teach some of those things as "martial art." I consider it a dangerous type of fraud. There is no telling what kind of dangerous situations some of those guys get themselves into..

[bodhisattva]

Can a rock qualify as a brick?

Rocks make awesome weapons as they are often even harder than bricks.. But you had better be in a life-or-death situation before you smack someone in the skull with a rock - as you're likely to crack that egg.