Shotokan discussion from Belt Thread

[Nit]

Originally posted by Dave3006
I studied under Sensei Nishiyama. He studied under Nakayama who studied under Funakoshi.

Dave there is a Shotokan instructor located near Witney in Oxfordshire, apparently he was the first european to win a Japanes Tournament. I don't recall his name, do you know of him?

[coidman]

Like Dave, I too have a black belt in Shotokan (SKA), and as several people have mentioned, much depends on the instructor, as well as the school. In SKA, our technique was restricted to the contents of the master text, Karate-Do Kyohan, and maybe some from Karate-Do Nyumon. From what I understand, the majority of Shotokan schools don't restrict themselves to this curriculum. SKA's curriculum is quite narrow--around 18 forms (not including Ten No Kata), around 10 basic techniques, and five types of sparring (ippon, sanbon, iai, jyu-ippon, and jyu kumite).

Was it supposed to be all inclusive? Not by any means. In fact, it wasn't even designed, strictly speaking, solely to be a combat art. If you look at the master text, Funakoshi indicates that his aim was to train mind, body, and spirit. The ability to defend oneself was only one of the goals. Learning how to act decisively with one mind and body was more important.

If you are evaluating Shotokan solely for it's combat applicability--as a method for training a fighter, you're absolutely right. It is inefficient. It takes too long to master. That doesn't mean a well-trained Shotokan practitioner is ineffective as a fighter. As Spank mentioned, that is a matter of the individual, not the art. I think of a martial art as a toolbox of sorts. Each technique or concept is a different tool that I can choose to use or not. The choice is up to me.

Personally, I gained a lot out of Shotokan, and I think my training with SKA was a good foundation. I know I developed a lot of tenacity and will from that practice. I don't know that I would have gained the same benefits from a different Shotokan school.

[Guest]

Great sage, I listed my instructors in BJJ and Jiu Jitsu to try to indicate that I have a little objectivity. I am not another brainwashed Shotokan karate guy.

I agree that the process takes a long time. I also admit that it has several flaws. At the end of 5 years, you can be a good fighter. OF COURSE, there are quicker ways than this. Heck a good Muy Thai fighter training for 6 months would clean house on most Shotokan black belts. I trained 6-7 days a week for 9 years. I benefited greatly from it. It delivered much of what it promised. I have a decent stand up fighting game. However, I would have been better off taking Muy Thai, kickboxing or a more realistic art. Still, shotokan was not worthless.

[Thai Bri]

I also think that Shotokan trains people how not to fight, as opposed to how to fight. Some of the very best can become effective fighters, but that it despite their system, not because of it. And most of those have trained in other systems anyway, and that is where their effectiveness comes from.

I have viewed a great many Shotokan classes, and my local Sports Centre boasts an ex World Champion as Sensei. The training is not only robotic and against thin air, it is also greatly marred by the stop start approach, i.e. everyone do a Rising Block. Everyone then stop and wait. Everyone then do a Reverse Punch etc.

Shotokan has completely lost the plot as a fighting art. Completely. If I wanted to learn how to fight, but only had Shotokan Karate or 5 a Side Soccer to choose from, I reckon that the 5 a Side would prepare me for the rigours of combat far better.

PS - as regards the Kiai. I think it is an excellent tool for a real fight. I have screamed in peoples faces, and it has been greatly helpful in overwhelming them.

[Lizard]

I heard that a big brawl broke out during a shotokan tournament but no one got hurt because they had all learnt to stop their punches an inch away from their opponent.

LOL the thought of Thai Bri screaming in someones face..... terrifying

In my dream I used a kiai to save my friends from being raped. I tried to shout for help but instead I ended up singing so then one of the big prison guys said "oh. A kiai" and he started singing too then they all started singing and everyone was friends.

[Thai Bri]

Originally posted by Lizard
In my dream I used a kiai to save my friends from being raped. I tried to shout for help but instead I ended up singing so then one of the big prison guys said "oh. A kiai" and he started singing too then they all started singing and everyone was friends.

The sad thing is, I believe to be true.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Bitty has those famous 'Austin Powers Teeth' and the breath to go with it...

[Thai Bri]

I hate the way you yanks say that us British have crooked teeth. Especially because I have crooked teeth.

Mind you, we think you lot are all fatties. Seems like we have a point, ya big fat wap.

[Nit]

I'm British and I still don't know what a 'wap' is...

Mind you I would agree in the statement that all Americans are big fat wap's... don't they all wear TShirts that all too small (XXXL) theat have "I'm #1" too?



Mind you I think the USA belie we talk like this:

"Woss goan oan?"
"Sharran!"
"Fhilwl!"
"I lav youse Sharran..."
"Rioght Io'm off ferra cuppa tee..."

[Thai Bri]

Cor blimey me old China! Lets get tut foot ot thold apples and pears.

[Nit]

I had to double butchers hook to check with talking tim aboutt eh speed of your party host....

[Thai Bri]

Aw wight Aw wight! Lumme guvnor! I say, coooorrrrrrr. What what?

[Nit]

Victorian guide to greeting:

At the their voice get a volenteer to say the following:

Step one: AIR

Step two: HAIR

Step three: LAIR

Now get them to repeat all together:
AIR HAIR LAIR

to which you replay:
"Air Hair Lair Old Boy, how is barnesworth these days? heard he got a gammy leg from giving the Bosch a good whalloping what what..."

[grubbogoppoly]

I can honestly say I understand not a single word of anything anyone is saying

[cbk]

Shotokan!

I have my 2nd degree black belt under a shotokan based school, which means that we use the basic mechanics of the normal shotokan curriculum mixed up with other martial arts. WE learn all the required forms(katas) for each belt level, be we incorparte our bjj,kickboxin,judo to each on of our classes... I think shotokan is a great base.... the long stances stregthens leg's and the forms are a great way (a different way) to train endurance and focus and power......
So big ups to Shotokan karate ... thats where most of all the martial arts developed from!!!!!!!!!

Ltz
1

CBK