Shotokan discussion from Belt Thread

[Thai Bri]

Most arts did not develop from Shotokan. It is actually a very young art.

Basically a relatively puny, and not very talented, Karate-Ka was tasked with taking Okinawan Karate to Japan. Basically he could speak Japanese.......

So he watered it down to make it "safe" (read "weak"), made it "simple" (read "ineffective") so that he could teach many people at the same time and made it "popular" (read "easy").

But it did go a long way at fooking Karate up. I'm not sure his real name was Funakoshi. Maybe it was Fuckuposhit.

[cbk]

i still don't understand this bashing..... first of all don't know where u get you info buddy.... but u should read some of the books written from Master Gichhin Funakoshi and son's... then you'll know some true facts...

but then again you probably wont understand that. People these day are just takes some type of martial arts to learn how to fight cause they don't want to get beat up... or they don't know how to fight... they get into the sport for the wrong reasons.....their the types of pepz who just want to pick somthing up for a few months and then when they think they got it, they get into brawls..

Shotokan is not weak. it teaches you how to focus, and in reality it's not that simple... each move which is preformed in a kata(form) has an application to a small fight... which was used to disguise from enemy's who just thought it was some stupid art... but each move has a corresponding bunkai application.... if people don't know what they are... they haven't training enough... or just not open minded enough to see it. or they can just be plain old stupid like some pepz.

and traiing in the art of shotokan is not easy if the person is doing they're hardest and focusing and putting energy in each and every move...

But like i said b4 Shotokan is a great Base for martial arts curriculums

CBK

[grubbogoppoly]

Each kata can be performed in a SMALL fight? What about big fights?

[ryanhall]

Oooohhh, Shotokan...

I just ran into a Shotokan black belt yesterday. Well, seeing as the guy lives three floors down, I guess it was only a matter of time. If anyone cares to read my experience:

Apparently, he saw my boxing gloves and decided that he should show me a thing or two. After a minute of discussion and his explaining about how what he does is self-defense this and that, he decided that he wanted to play around a bit. I obliged, and ended up hitting him with a light (due to the very low intensity level) hook to the jaw, courtesy of his crappy defense and below-the-chin hand guard. After getting a bit bored after about 20 more seconds, I decided to change up and shoot for his legs. Because the floor was tile, I just picked him up rather than slamming him head first into the deck (I weigh roughly 165, and this guy is about 180). After a two second brain fart on his part, the black belt (we'll call him Garrett) proceeded to repeatedly punch me in the kidneys from the air, claiming that I would have dropped to the ground in pain--I gather that this would be from his uber-powerful, zero-body-torque punches with his allegedly conditioned hands). I rolled my eyes and continued.

The next 'round' was a couple punches, a push kick to the knee, and a takedown that brought him to the ground. with me in perfect position to be put into the guard (had he known anything about the ground--he claimed to). While mounting and miming an elbow to the face, he pushed up with one finger on the notch between my collar bones (throat area) and declared me 'dead.' How one could crush the throat of another without any leverage and only using one finger is beyond me--it's not friggin possible). Pushing (not striking) there can cause a gag reflex, and that's about it. Ignoring him, I proceeded to finish mounting and land a volley of light punches to his facial mass. Didn't bother declaring him 'hospitalized,' as I don't need the ego gratification.

Long story short, he really wasn't impressive in the least (seemed very impressed with himself, however--his instructor supposedly killed 34 people exactly with his bare hands as a tunnel rat in Vietnam. Should this be true, what it has to do with self-defense is beyond me, especially because tunnel rats had f*ckin guns and knives for a reason.). I've never been declared 'dead' more times in three minutes in my life.

Speaking of knives, things started to get a bit heated when this topic came up. Anyone who knows a thing about me knows that I'm a bit of a self-defense nut. I make it my business to know a little about it. Having a Shotokan practitioner talk to me about how he would block any attack that I could throw at him was a little much. According to this guy, he had been 'trained to fight, not trained to give in.' As such, he says that, presented with a knife-wielding attacker, he would fight (and die) immediately. When I stated that he would be better served by giving the knife-holder anything he wanted (while hoping that it wasn't a quickie), he rolled his eyes. As one bystander (who actually proved himself to have some skill later that evening) aptly stated, "it's called brains over balls." The eye roll presented itself again when I suggested that Mr. Blackbelt (or anyone else) would be very hard-pressed to stop me from stabbing them with a blade if I so desired to do so. Initially, I wanted to go get a sharpie marker and have him try to stop me from marking him up and while repeatedly pistoning his face with my off hand, but maturity prevailed, and I decided that it just wasn't worth it. As someone who has had a blade put to his throat, I can tell you that when you feel cold metal on you, you shit bricks--I gave the other guy what the f#ck he wanted (money), and that's probably why I'm here now. Keeping your cool in such a situation is tough enough. Just grabbing at knife at your throat (or hitting the knifer in the groin as the guy suggested--which would conveniently cause him to cut your carotid artery by way of a flinch) is veritable suicide. Verbal distraction and pattern interrupt are pretty much your best bet.

Suffice it to say that the urge to beat some sense into this overconfident, extremely self-assured blackbelt was very strong. I don't intend to come off as any sort of badass. The fact of the matter is that this guy just isn't. I wans't even being serious, and this guy was a pushover. Take off the gloves, and he wouldn't have lasted ten seconds. Screw jab, cross, hook--it's shreddin' time.

Moral of the story--don't play poker with people who will accuse you of cheating when you're not (especially if you're within arm's reach of them ). And don't give in to the urge to prove someone wrong for ego gratification. It's not worth it. You can beat their head in and they probably won't see your point of view.

[grubbogoppoly]

Ryan:
This guy obviously shouldn't have been a black belt. He didn't realize the first rule in martial arts. Win the fight before it starts(ie your example of giving money to the knife wielding mugger). The art of fighting without fighting. . Wasn't that a great scene on that boat with bruce lee. Sorry, that just reminded me of that.
Anyways, I am not sure. But was that supposed to show that shotokan sucks? Just curious

As to the fact that his instructor was some sort of bad ass. .Well, maybe. But, if so then that guy just had no sense, lol. My instructor in sac town is a bad ass, but, I realize this doesn't make me one(I am far from it)

[ryanhall]

Anyways, I am not sure. But was that supposed to show that shotokan sucks? Just curious

No, it wasn't supposed to show that, but a reader could have inferred such from my description. If what he attempted was typical of Shotokan, then I would not rate it well as a method of fighting. His self-defense prattle was really off, he knew not a thing about real life combat (despice having such an alleged bad-ass for an instructor). I also start to get an involuntary tick whenever anyone talks about 'blocking' a knife.

Just as a matter of history, I would like to point out that tunnel rats had a very low percentage of survival, and killing 34 people in uncertain, close quarters combat sounds like a bit of a stretch (though I am not saying that it couldn't be true). However, if the bad-ass tunnel rat is teaching people what this guy showed me, then I have serious doubt as to his background. Old-style military combatives (some of the sh!t that works) looks absolutely nothing like what this guy was showing me.

As to the fact that his instructor was some sort of bad ass. .Well, maybe. But, if so then that guy just had no sense, lol. My instructor in sac town is a bad ass, but, I realize this doesn't make me one(I am far from it

I train and have trained with some genuinely bad mo-fo's, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter what your instructor can do, it matters what you can do. Why does it always seem that many of the roughest dudes that you can meet tend to be pretty nice people? Seems like the jerks are the ones who really can't put their money where their mouth is...(usually, that is)

[grubbogoppoly]

Ryan:"However, if the bad-ass tunnel rat is teaching people what this guy showed me, then I have serious doubt as to his background. Old-style military combatives (some of the sh!t that works) looks absolutely nothing like what this guy was showing me. "

A lot of things that students do look nothing like what they are taught. I should know. I am being taught in sacramento and training in fresno. I go back and my instructor doesn't belittle me. But, some of the things I remember as the technique are just way off at times. This can be a good way of training though. I have to think for myself constantly. I don't have someone just spoon feeding me the answers(as you know there is no right way to do it. It is the ends not the mean.). I think this is how we get all of the differences even with in styles. A student will learn a technique, but modify it because they can't do it properly. When I say modify I mean use a less efficient way of creating the same effect. They then see the modification of the technique as THE technique. There is no problem with a "modification of technique". The modification of technique is a good thing and should happen in combat, for it to work. Damn it, I am rambling again. But I think you got my point.

[grubbogoppoly]

Ryan:
"I train and have trained with some genuinely bad mo-fo's, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter what your instructor can do, it matters what you can do. Why does it always seem that many of the roughest dudes that you can meet tend to be pretty nice people? Seems like the jerks are the ones who really can't put their money where their mouth is...(usually, that is)"
Just forgot about that part.
And I completely agree

[Thai Bri]

Ryan - don't worry. I hereby declare you alive again.

[ryanhall]

Ryan - don't worry. I hereby declare you alive again.

Phew. I was worried for a second there. I've been waiting all day for his delayed death touch to kick in. Good to know I have Bri Thai the Physician here to let me know that that stuff is fake.

[Thai Bri]

I just kind of wiggled my hand a bit, and there you were. Alive.

It truly is a Thai Bri Miracle!

[Great Sage]

Ryan,

That was a really cool story. A lot of Black Belts have their belts tied on too tight. Most can’t distinguish between reality and fiction. For that reason, I train for self-improvement and if the belt comes with it, I’ll gladly wear it for the sake of training.

I also have a story regarding Shotokan Karate, although not quite as interesting. During one semester, I enrolled in our Shotokan Karate class for the sake of doing martial arts with other people. At the time, I had already trained TKD, boxing & kickboxing, but humbled myself incognito...

My instructor, Steven was a very devout fundamentalist in regards to karate. He was entirely sold on all the mysticisms associated with karate. However, that was what made him such an ethical and moral person. Unfortunately, it didn’t rub off on many of his students quite the same way. Some of his senior students, who came from his real dojo to train, were show-offs and degenerates... They made sexist remarks & antics behind people’s backs and treated the our college class as a playground.

Anyways I was only a white belt still learning kihon techniques... Finally, one day Steven allowed us to try ji-yu sparring. I was handing my opponent his ass and I think everyone knew I had previous martial arts training. After that everyone seemed more interested in what I was doing and even the loud-mouths were interested...asking me occasional questions like, “what was that technique?”

A year later, I started my own martial arts program at the college.

[Szczepankiewicz]

A year later, I started my own martial arts program at the college.

Impressive... Obi Wan has taught you well. But you are not a Jedi yet!

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Impressive... Obi Wan has taught you well. But you are not a Jedi yet!

LOL...TOO LATE!!! I've already crossed over to the Dark Side!

[M@T]

Originally posted by Dave3006


Is shotokan the best? NOPE. No way. Is it criticized by people who do not have a clue? YEP.

I did Shotokan for a few years, am I qualified to say its crap

If I am then great. Coz its crap

Ich !!! Ni!!! San!!! Shi!!! Go!!!