Whats the 'best' karate style?

[darrianation]

I think you should worry less about style and find the best instructor for what your goals are. If you want to compete in tournaments, or are you more interested in self-defense, or a cultural experience or just exercise. These are all more school/instructor dependent than style dependent .

I know when I studied Wado we were very much into tournaments and concentrated allot on that aspect. We didn’t spend allot of time on self-defense. I don’t think my instructor would know what to do if attacked on the street but damn could he compete in kuminte and perform a flawless kata.

I’ll try to break down the styles that I've studied much like Toudiyama did.

Wado: The word wado literally means the way of harmony or peace and harmony. It is softer than the Shotokan style, from which it was born; Wado incorporates less kata, kumite, and basic technique and more jujutsu holds and locks. and kendo. Toudiyama says it sucks for self-defense but I don’t think its any better or worse than any other style of karate for self-defense. However for point karate tournaments it’s one of the best.

Shito: You better like to do kata if you do this style; this style has way too many damn katas. You’ll be doing Kata all day long. It’s softer than shotokan but I believe it’s harder than wado. It’s a cross breed of goju and shorin ryu karate and is most known for it’s square-on stances and linear strikes. Traditional Okinawan weapons are also taught in the Shito.

Uechi: “All is in sanchin” Uechi is a Chinese-Okinawan self-defense system founded by Kanbun Uechi from Okinawa. It is very strongly influenced by Chinese martial art called Pangainoon kung-fu. Pangainoon means half hard and half soft, referring to Uechi-ryu hard strikes and thrusts, as well as its sliding or redirecting soft blocks. Uechi is most widely known as an infighting system. It has some off the wall stuff like the one knuckle punch (the phoenix punch) as there prime punch and using the toes to kick with instead of the ball of the foot when doing the front kick.

Shotokan: This is the Karate that I am currently doing at this time. Shotokan is a blend of two styles of Okinawan Karate most noted for its deep stances (which I dislike allot) and its linear movements. There are little circular movements that you see in other Okinawan karate’s. It is a hard style implementing hard blocks that are also used to damage the opponents striking arm or leg. It is best summed up as sport karate.

Out of these Wado is my favorite. I guess it’s because it was my first martial art and I began it at a young and impressionable age (I was 12 y/o). I also identify better with its philosophies better than other Karate styles.

My over all favorite MA that I have trained in is Muay Thai it beats the hell out of all the rest. I practice karate because there is nothing else where I live and I am a close personal friend of the shotokan instructor.

I hope I have shed some light on this for you. Good luck in your search.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Darr:

When I say it sucks at selfdefence, I mean any martial art sucks at selfdefence
I'm not dissing Wado at all, for Pete's sake, I'm a Wado karate teacher(non active)

I must agree it is one of the nicesy styles of traditional karate

Playing the toreador during tanto dori is fun

As for Wado having less Kata, true, only 15 Kata, of which 9 are considered basic ( did you know Supurempai has been part of the curriculum?)
But less Kumite? come one man, Kumite are there because of Ohtsuka, it was him and Konishi that started to experiment with it while still doing Funakoshi Karate ( before it was changed to Shotokan)
the deep stances of Shotokan were introduced after Ohtsuka left to for the Wado Ryu by Funakoshi's son
Look at pictures of Funakoshi doing techniques, it looks more like Wado than Shotokan

but appart from that a nice explanation of the major karate styles

Oh one more thing, isn't the Phoenix punch part of Isshin ryu, uechi is known for openhand, they do shanshin with openhand
Isshin uses the vertical fist with the thumb on the side of the fist

[darrianation]

Yeah when I say Less kuminte I mean pre-arranged stuff like 3 or four step kuminte etc not nessasarily kata application, or free sparring.

Your right the deep stances of shotokan came along after Funakoshi I believe. It was introduced to improve leg strength. Shotokan does not encourage the use the deep stances for fighting.

As as the one knuckle punch it's the shoken. Seiken is the fundamental two-knuckle fist, it is the most popular its what most of us use. The shoken or one-knuckle fist, is a more advanced technique. However they taught us this from day one.

If I knew how to attach images I would attach a pic here.

[darrianation]

And for karate in general being not so great for self-defense I agree there. There are better MAs out there for that.

[darrianation]

Toudiyama Oh I was in a hurry with time running out before I had to leave I guess I didn't catch what I was saying you are totally right about the kuminte. Dah... I am having a brain fart.

I studied Wado from 1977 to 1982 so as you can see it has been 21 yaers. Wow has time flown. I still have very found memories of those days and remember some things as if it were yesterday and yet some things (memories) are just not there any more.
After 21 years I still remember about 7 kata from then and can perform them as if second nature. Since I started Shotokan I have cleaned up my techniuqe some. There are only some minor differences in the kata and order slightly changed.

Anyway thanks for keeping me straight.

[brokenelbow]

And for karate in general being not so great for self-defense I agree there. There are better MAs out there for that.

LMAO @ that. I think the more kata a system has the less likely they know what they're doing. Isshinryu, eight kata not counting the weapons.

BTW, can you tell that I really like Isshinryu?

[sanshou2]

Originally posted by hEmPY
Does any1 of ya knows somethin bout hakkyoku-ken? I found sumwhere videotape w/ masterz of hakkyoku-ken for 40 bux, but I cant found dat site now lol

It means eight extremes fist or Baji fist. It's a chinese style of kung fu.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Originally posted by brokenelbow
LMAO @ that. I think the more kata a system has the less likely they know what they're doing. Isshinryu, eight kata not counting the weapons.

BTW, can you tell that I really like Isshinryu?

So tell me was I ight in my correction about Uechi and Isshin?

Actually what I said was different fom what dar said, I sais NO MA is great at SD

BTW the amount of Kata doesn't tell you if it is a Katabased system or not, if Isshin would revolve around those 8 Kata ( I do not know) it would't make any difference how many
Heck remember the 3 years per Kata statement? now that is based on training daily but with bunkai in the form of tegumi drills so although based only on kata, they were still busy with selfdefence
And that is what some MT peopple seem to forget, a lot of Karateka spend time on specific selfdefence techniques, so what is lost in realistic sparring is gained in knowledge
Of coarse the sparringexperience will make them win sparringmatches all the time but selfdefence ain't sparring in the gym or an event, it's like having to compete and being told you have to 10 seconds in advance
Most of the time the right attitude will be the best selfdefence because it will keep you out of trouble

[Nit]

I really love Wado Ryu... so far it has such a useful base for all the other arts that I'm interested in...

I agree with comments made, such as it's not so practical on the street but good for points fighting, also there is just something about the Wado spirit that makes it appeal to me.

It's (to me) about efficiency and flowing into a non-specific fluid yet strong motion. I suppose that the Tai-Chi and fung-Fu creeping in. But it's also strong and powerful at the right moments.

Wado Ryu has helped me become more than just a KarateKa, it's helped me develop into a Martial Artist - I'm no longer a robot but a wisp of smoke, I can adapt to what is needed (well ok I'm still learning that bit, but I find it <i> easier </i> to adapt to) in various situations. I feel that it is down to my training in Wado helping me to bring elements of everything else that I learn together co-herently.

Anyway, nuff of my drivilling, I got some Issin Ryu to catch up on

_________________________________________________
OOOO0000ooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[darrianation]

I posted this on another thread but since there is talk on self-defense here. This is my philosophy on self-defense.

5 ingredients in order of importance.

1)Intelligence- Knowing when a bad situation is going on and leaving. Avoidence. Staying away from bad parts of town and seedy bars/clubs. Verbal responses to calm a would be attacker down, running away. Etc. Etc.

2) Mental toughness- Dealing with stress, adrenaline, anger, and fighting with determination and ferocity.

3) Physical conditioning.

4) Physical strength.

5) Skills- Punching, kicking, techniques (ma training), and etc.

These are the thing I teach when teaching self-defense.

I’ll take someone with 100% heart and 5 techniques any day over someone with 100 techniques and only 5% heart (I heard this somewhere but it’s very true).

As far as the techniques it really doesn't matter where they come from (karate, MT, Judo, JJ, etc) as long as there is some striking and grappling techniques involved and taught as realistically as possible.

[darrianation]

It’s not that I think Karate is terrible or anything like that. It has a lot of very good techniques. Karate has punches, kicks, elbows, and knees, a very good arsenal of techniques. Karate teaches strikes to the eyes, throat, and groin. Where karate goes wrong is in their application. All these techniques are geared more for tournament sparring (punches/kicks) and knees and elbow you really only see in kata and on occasion you may practice them on a bag (what a couple times a year?), and not much practice with the eye/groin/throat strikes either.

Most karate dojos do not teach the psychology of a street attack. They don’t get into reality based training that is realistic and practical. Not to mention the fact that they lack some ground fighting.

I don’t know about some of your experiences in karate and self-defense training but dojo after dojo I’ve been to, they say crap like this: If some one grabs you, you don’t want to just punch them because than you will go to jail. So instead grab their wrist this way twist and control them without really hurting them. Does this sound familiar? Now this is crap! This is unrealistic shit that will get your head taken off. Also they do little to nothing to raise your stress level while practicing self-defense and you partner is almost always cooperating with you. All this is usually done at slow to medium speed in a relaxed atmosphere. This is no way to train in self defense. Karate (in general) does not teach or promote the killer instinct when it comes to self defense. That’s sad because they are doing all of us karate practitioners a disservice.

[brokenelbow]

Oh one more thing, isn't the Phoenix punch part of Isshin ryu, uechi is known for openhand, they do shanshin with openhand
Isshin uses the vertical fist with the thumb on the side of the fist

The thumb placement is traditionally on top but many put it tucked in regular. Not too familiar with Uechiryu but it has a good rep.

BTW the amount of Kata doesn't tell you if it is a Katabased system or not, if Isshin would revolve around those 8 Kata ( I do not know) it would't make any difference how many

I was half kidding and agree with you. Why most schools teach kata at all is beyond me. The bunkai, if taught at all, usually runs either overly basic or overly complicated.

I'll agree with you that most self defense taught is crap. You just can't cover all the possibilities that could happen, find at least one technique for each one and have someone remember them.

darrian I like your five.

[brokenelbow]

Here's something you all might enjoy.

http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/index.html

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Tnx man this is great info

And if people want to know more about bunkai trhy this one http://www.society.webcentral.com.au/
His Karate is based on Pre Itosu Karate so before it got simplified and made into a fysical excercise

[kempo_jujutsu]

no style is superior to another in general....just gotta find what works for you.