2004

[Demi Barbito]

I can only speak for myself...

There is a type of conscious ignorance amoung martial arts types these days. Actually it’s been going on for years, maybe longer. My experience is that most martial artists began their martial journey as a means to a “self defense” end. It was not about glory. It was not about spiritual nonsense. It was not about making money. There was a need to keep oneself and ones family safe (as possible). This is the common thread woven through martialism.

Along the way some hinderences have krpet in unnoticed. Things that side track the original process. Some have certain benifites like grappling. You must know how to grapple. It’s inescapable. Grappling, however, does not solve all problems. The advent of grappling in the early 90’s brought with it “grappling schools and organizations” which profess to solve all self defense needs with grappling. Becoming a “grappler” is like becoming a “hammerer”. You could replace the word grappeler with striker, kicker, trapper, judoka.

Philosophy is another distraction. I’m not speaking of religion here. Many martial arts organizations have attached to themselves a philisophical “go to guy”. Some love to quote Bruce Lee. Others will quote Bruce Lee quoting Krishnamurti (even if they don’t know it). Still others will give you Krishnamurti himself. Flowery talk and circular ideology does not usually stop mean people who want to hurt you. So why is it so constantly entwined with martial arts?

Weaponless warriors. This is the one I just cannot even understand. Some martial artists are still anti-gun. Those who are not think that the gun is magic. It takes just as much time and effort to learn to “fight with a weapon” as it does to fight empty handed. So why do people spend 90% of their martial time on empty hands and 10% on weapons? I think it’s because everyone still thinks that the weapons are going to solve the problems by themselves. Weapons are operator dependant. The best jab in the world does not make you proficient with a 9mm. Just as simply “owning” a weapon does not make you a weapon master. “I’ve been shooting since I was a kid” has nothing to do with weapons combat. The other side of the coin is the “firearm only” crowd. As if. You can have a .45 on your belt but the knife coming at you from 5 feet away is going to require two hands to stop. Remember, you only have two hands.

If it’s about “self preservation” you would want an appropriate level of combat related skill with various weapons. Especially firearms for home defense as well as pepper spray and modern impact devices. I’m a “weapons first” guy in most cases. If it’s really about protecting yourself and your family you’ll go to the highest level of force available (if available) to get the job done fast. That does not mean drawing a gun when someone curses your mother. It means not jumping into every situation with a “hands on approach” as the only options.

In 2003 I saw a tremendous amount of martial vulturism on the internet. This is a good thing. It keeps the status quo under constant attack. The point of concern is the potential emergence of a new status quo. Individuals need evaluate their priorities and see if they want to train to be “great fighters” or train to “STOP DANGEROUS PERSONS DEAD IN THEIR TRACKS”.

Demi

https://www.DemiBarbito.com

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Good article, Demi.

Ryu

[moma_news]

Some people do not believe in the use of firearms for whatever reason. This definitely presents a problem for those people if their intention is to learn "realistic" self-protection. But to each his own.

I know many people who started by wanting to learn to defend themselves, but after years of training, gravitated more towards the artistic aspects of the arts. Their focus in no longer on being the baddest, just enjoying what they're doing.

They've accomplished their goals as to self-defense. They feel more secure than they did when they first started. To some, this is all they want. Whether this is a false feeling or not depends on each individual.

To each his own.

The "-do" arts came out of this expression. They were forged in peace-time. Most have martial roots, but many have lost much of the application. The focus has changed.

If people are making bogus claims, such as grappling will handle all self-defense situations, then yes, they should be called on it. False claims are rampant in the MA.

But if someone is training in their respective art, not making any bogus claims, and enjoying what they do, then more power to them. We need more of these people in the arts, in my opinion.

People train in the arts for many different reasons. Many may have started because of "self preservation", but that doesn't necessarily mean that's what keeps them in the arts today.

"Out of the crooked timber of humanity no straight thing can ever be made."

Immanuel Kant

[El Mastero]

I agree with alot of what was stated on this topic. However, I live in NYC and they have stringent laws on gun ownership and carrying most weapons are illegal (even pepper spray and stun guns if I'm not mistaken). So training in a weapon that I will never carry is pretty useless. Although, training to defend oneself unarmed against a weapon is a vital and sometimes overlooked part of one's MA training. Even if I personally abide by the law it does not mean that everyone else does. So training unarmed to defend myself against an assailant carrying a weapon would be more important to me personally.

[smartmonkey]

Demi, I enjoyed your post. For what it's worth I will share where SBGi is headed in terms of "self preservation".


Speaking of philosophy, I just spent a couple days teaching privates to an Instructor from WA state who primarily teaches children. In fact his kids class has more the 160 members.

It was interesting to hear him and Tom Oberhue share ideas back and forth regarding the philosophy of teaching children, values, games, and the over all health aspects of it. His interest was in moving towards Luis's P.A.W program, which we also discussed in depth. Play As the Way is the healthy philosophy of the future, especially for kids.

The parents that bring their children to him appreciate that the kids learn 'functional' self defense. But they also appreciate the fact that their children are happy, healthy, and find their performance in school, and relationships with others improving far more then they do the physical skills being taught.

It's the VALIDATION FROM SELF philosophy that he helps impart to the kids, and the self esteem that is generated from that, which is so important and vital to the children.

Although not everyone is looking to reach a black belt level in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, a high standard of skill for the Coaches and Instructors is essential.

A good example is the ISRMatrix program, (www.isrmatrix.org) which is rapidly changing the way Law Enforcement officers train for survival, and is without a doubt the cutting edge of training in it's field. Obviously many aspects of the curriculum are changed to fit the environment and parameters of engagement. However, one of the key elements that allowed Luis to see the details and fine points that need to be emphasized for officers when it comes to survival and training was his own high level of skill in the delivery systems. Including his BJJ skills.

So although not all students and clients may want to develop deep levels of skill in all the delivery systems, it's crucial that all our coaches do.

And a nice side benefit is that the opportunity to develop that skill is always available for anyone that wants it at an SBGi. And to be honest, many people do. After all, it is also a lot of fun.


Finally, I am happy to announce that D.R. Middlebrook is posting in our members forums in the weapons and firearms section. D.R. is on the cutting edge of firearms for self defense training, and is the main firearms instructor for Paul Sharp, Adam, and other SBGi Coaches. His input into that field is invaluable to us.

Speaking for myself, it's always been incredibly valuable for me to learn from the experts in the various fileds. As an example, learning clinch from a great Greco Coach, or the wisdom that can come from a seasoned boxing Coach, or BJJ black belt. When it comes to issues of firearms and weapons, it makes just as much sense to consult experts such as D.R. I rely heavily on their input, and the input of people like Paul Sharp, who actually has to use such information on a daily basis in his line of work. For him it's a very real issue of self preservation, and those are the guys that one would be well advised ti listen to on such subjects as "self preservation." His been there, done that. It's awesome to be able to draw on such information within the Gym.

Leaving the door of Alive training open for children, people interested primarily in self defense, people interested in health, fitness, Law Enforcement training, Military/Government training, competitive athletes, older, younger, make and female, etc, is important for the SBGi. And we are fortunate to have Coaches within our Gym that have a lot of knowledge in one or more of these areas which they are willing to share with those who need such information for safety, health, and well being.

It's very important for me to stress that Aliveness is indeed for EVERY-BODY.
No doubt 2004 will be a great Year.

I think this is a great spot to re-post and excellent piece written by Luis on training, and Martial Arts.

As to Street or Sport? Instead ask what good any of this serves you? What of this would you live or share? What if any of this is you? What of this serves the world you seek or would leave your children?

What good is or does it to callous your hands and body for battle if in so doing those very same hands and body can no longer feel, hold, or lie with that which it deems soft, gentle, and beautiful enough to protect?

If you become the horror you fear, who and what has prevailed? If you recognize it and do nothing, who and what has prevailed? Apathy is fear of fear as much as rage and hate are its acknowledgment.

Why so often all this “boy speak” of fighting and ferocity? If you are a man who truly seeks freedom and fulfillment for those he protects and serves, why not put these childish things behind you and instead BE the example of such freedom and fulfillment? If a child acts cruelly or violent in ignorance, do you deem it necessary to show it a greater cruelty and violence? Is that the only power you have garnered in your maturity? Have you not learned a more efficient manner?

Do you actually think or believe by fighting you will find a lack of it? Do you actually think facing an unhealthy ego through violence negates it? Do you not see the unhealthy ego as the birthplace of all anxiety and fear? That by raising the volume of such noise you can never hear the silence that would save you from it?

Do you really think or believe there is any honor or beauty in bloodshed? Do you really? Do you believe in the tales OF war written by those not IN war? Can you actually pretend to conceive or practice anything remotely accurate to what the aggression and the cruel and wicked will to violence entails and what part of it possesses and is possessed in a man? Would you truly want to? Why? Why would you seek such strength? To bare what? To carry what burden? What wounds does such a passion and bottomless hunger for strength hide?

Do you not see such strength lies in weakness? Do you not see that such strength fears peace and does not wish it or act upon or behalf of it?

What good strength without the wisdom to use it?

What good strength without the compassion to value it?

What good strength without the humility to surrender it?

What good strength if not to build others?

Men reading, hearing about, or viewing tales of valor and courage and all the horrific godforsaken violence they entail often miss the one primary and important factor in the heart of such “heroes”….they were men of peace, poets, farmers, and family facing men who at one point or another were raped or stripped of all those things as well. And…after such horror want nothing of it and only a return to the lost days of old again…of peace, beauty, nature and family.

Instead I ask of you all to break such a cycle within your own hearts first as that’s were all these words emanate from. You see, all this is speech and not action but…..they go hand in hand. What you speak and think plays out ever so subtly in what will appear before you daily. Do not live in or be a vehicle of fear. Walk and do not run from it.

What good are the wealth or riches in the world if they leave your poor at heart? Whatever you choose to collect you will one day have to put down. Start letting go now.

Mindset or approach? Nah, truth and a surrender to it.

I wish you all well in this season of love, rebirth, and a faith beyond any will of man.

Make it a new year!

GOD bless you and keep you,

-Luis


Have a great new year!
-Matt Thornton

https://www.straightblastgym.com

[brokenelbow]

Good posts Demi and Matt.

My experience is that most martial artists began their martial journey as a means to a “self defense” end. It was not about glory.

Something that I've noticed is many do start self defense with visions of glory, glory in defeating some unknown badguy. Most get over this and find a love of training for it's own sake, some don't and become paranoids or bullys.

Individuals need evaluate their priorities and see if they want to train to be “great fighters” or train to “STOP DANGEROUS PERSONS DEAD IN THEIR TRACKS”.

These things don't have to be mutually exclusive. Just learning to stop a badguy dead in his tracks is mostly a waste of time for most of us civilians. What I get from training with handguns is self control, focus, balanced movement and awareness. Good return on training to being able to head shot someone from 10 meters while moving. Same with empty hand, I train to do certain things that I could use for self defense, but I get other benefits for everyday life.
Matt, thanks for sharing Luis' post.

[Demi Barbito]

Matt,


Regarding...

"""When it comes to issues of firearms and weapons, it makes just as much sense to consult experts"""

Yes - but as you yourself become the expert.

"""What good is or does it to callous your hands and body for battle if in so doing those very same hands and body can no longer feel, hold, or lie with that which it deems soft, gentle, and beautiful enough to protect? """

That is profound but not applicable to "men at arms".

That statement is dedicated those hiding under rocks and in closets. To those who are actually worried first and formost and about protecting themselves from dangers that probably do not even exsist. To those who are the centers of their own dark universe.

As husbands and fathers, we are not driven by paranoia or self preservation for the sake of the "self". We are motivated by obligation and responsibility. It is one part of how we show love to our family and friends. It is a very honorable part of our role. One that is too often brushed off by modern men who would rather role model fear disguised as tolerance and ambiuity disguised as moral relativism to their children. Being a citizen, a father and a husband forces one to take stands and hold ground.

There is so much more to life than all of this. In the area of "martialism" however, There is no room for compromise at the expense of that which you are entrusted to protect.

Demi

[smartmonkey]

tolerance

Demi,

I appreciate your perspective, and I am not arguing with your approach.

Your approach is obviously the one you need at the moment. I base that off the fact it is what you are doing now, so it's really a no brainier.

However, let me just try and articulate where I am coming from with the ideas expressed in your last post.

"Yes - but as you yourself become the expert."

This is one of those issues where I find myself personally working on my tolerance, patience, and compassion.

I was in the military, and did shoot a lot of weapons, and sleep in a lot of really cold muddy places. I didn't really dig it at the time, after the 18 year old Rambo fantasies wore off. . .(which they do pretty quickly by the way when the reality of it sets in). But I don't regret my time served either.

However, I did (and to a small extent still do), find myself more then slightly annoyed with the chicken hawks who bark a lot about war, power, and the need for strength, but who have never put a uniform on in their life.

In fact I could go so far as to say that in the past it would really piss me off. I had no patience for the wanna-be mercenary type, who found the need to wear camouflage fatigues and talk about guns, bad guys, and tactics.

Now I see that some people have an interest in the subject, and just because they are not in the military doesn't mean that this interest is 'always' an issue of internal fear/aggression, and insecurity.

It sometimes is, as related in some of the stories on the "streetfighter" mindset thread, no doubt.

But it is not always that way.

So in that sense, I am proud to say I am far more tolerant of the para-military people now then I was 15 Years ago.

I have never been a police officer either, but my father was all his life. So I grew up going to the station after school, and pretty much being around cops most of childhood. I sensed the same thing in them at times when it came to the guys who liked to talk shop about 'bad guys', and 'street' tactics, but who have never made an arrest, served a warrant, or done a day on the job as a police officer.

There are of course professionals who offer real skill when it comes tactics, weapons, speech, or other issues which can benefit them and help them do their duty.

And if the material is sound, most intelligent officers I know will at least give it a few moments to see if it has application.

However, you can see that there is still a fine line there where you want to make sure you are not attempting to tell them how to do what they do, unless you have done it too. And I can respect and understand that.

(That is profound but not applicable to "men at arms".)

Yes, that is the issue. If there is a true calling to be one, then I would say follow your heart.

The police force is always looking for good talent, and that is a tough job.

And I think being good at it requires to some degree a real sense of wanting to make some positive change, if at all possible, within the community.

That, along with a heavy dose of tolerance, respect, intelligence, and kindness, seems to be the common denominator for the really good officers I have known.

That's a job that is served better if you have a 'calling' for it. So that would be a great route.

Another is of course the Military. It's a personal choice, but if one feels called to serve, and make the world a safer place through force of arms, that is certainly a point of serious entry. And they are ALWAYS looking for new people.

There are other jobs of personal protection, investigation, and public service that all require "men at arms".

Any of them would be a good path to take.

However, I have to be honest and say that if someone still "speaks", or lets it be known they are playing the part of a "men at arms", and yet is not serving in some capacity of publics service, my tolerance is still tested. But I am working on that.

Obviously as a "trainer", even though civilian, it is a different issue. And there is no judgment on that.

But even in those cases it has been my experience that those who know the most on such issues, and have seen/done/experienced the most in terms of real bloodshed, violence, and degradation, speak the least on it. When spoken it tends to be on a need to know basis, or in a rare private moment.

I have yet to see an exception to that rule, so at this point in my life I have come to the conclusion that there must be a solid reason for that fact.

"That statement is dedicated those hiding under rocks and in closets. To those who are actually worried first and foremost and about protecting themselves from dangers that probably do not even exist. To those who are the centers of their own dark universe."

Yes, there are far to many of these people suffering needlessly with their own self imposed fear/aggression.

"As husbands and fathers, we are not driven by paranoia or self preservation for the sake of the "self". We are motivated by obligation and responsibility."

No doubt, but certainly not a solely "male" quality. Want to see some real serious aggression, watch a healthy mother defend her children. Defense of one's own is a natural quality within the human, and animal species.

"It is a very honorable part of our role."

I don't personaly mix honor with violence. But I understand your point, and that is not to say that there is anything ever DIShonorable about self defense.

However, against speaking from my experiences with people who really have had to walk the walk and become involved in serious cases of violence for means of self preservation, or defense, I have never found them using the word "honor" as a means of description.

That is a term that gets thrown out more by others in speaking about them.

For them it seems to that it just was what it was, and nothing they would ever like to repeat, or wish on anyone else's children.

"One that is too often brushed off by modern men who would rather role model fear disguised as tolerance and ambiguity disguised as moral relativism to their children."

Yes, that IS an issue. TOLERANCE. . .interesting word.

Brings a few historical episodes to mind. Rwanda pops up, there is an issue of tribal xenophobia, where two peoples massacre each other with machetes, men, women, and little children. No tolerance for the other tribe there, that is for sure.

I also think of Kosovo, the Armenians, the inquisition, the witch trials, the holocaust, the roman persecution of Christians, the stoning of women in Muslim countries *(see the gospels for Jesus's interpetation for tolerance on that old "law").

Yes, SADLY issues with tolerance and the lack thereof form a really, really long list of atrocities.

It also brings to mind every religious, fundamentalist zealot that is sure 'his' god is the one true god, and that showing 'tolerance' for another mans beliefs or god is a disservice.

Of course the middle east springs to mind. The muslims, christians, and jews, all fighting over the same piece of DIRT, and often believing the "promised land" is a literal interpretation of that piece of dirt.

Certainly no tolerance there.

Nope, the more I reflect on it the less an over abundence of tolerance really seems to be the issue.

In fact, for the majority of violent fanatics, I would say that is backwards.

I watched an interview that was given by a buddhist monk who had been imprisoned and tortured by the chinese for over ten Years. At one point he was asked if he ever really felt like he was going to 'lose it' completely inside the prison walls.

He said, "Yes there was a few times where I felt really in danger."

The interviewer said, in danger of being murdered? In danger of taking your own life?

And he said, "No, in danger of losing loving compassion for the chinese."

All I could think after watching that was, wow. There is truly a real "man".

-Matt Thornton www.straightblastgym.com

[Demi Barbito]

"""I have to be honest and say that if someone still "speaks", or lets it be known they are playing the part of a "men at arms", and yet is not serving in some capacity of publics service, my tolerance is still tested."""

A man is inherently in service to the ones he loves. Public service has nothing to do with being "men at arms". Most officers never fire their weapons in self defense over a 20 year career. Most soldiers never go to war. Public service also requires an acceptance of "public policy". If you do not agree with the politics on the federal or state level how could you sign up to enforce them, even give your life for them? If you do don't plan on being a weapons or tactics expert. There is not enough money for training, the training parameters are very limited, there are multicultural sensitivity meetings to attend, tickets to write, arrests to be made, reports due...

"""TOLERANCE. . .interesting word"""

When I spoke of tolerance I meant "good people" tolerating the actions of "evil people" and not doing anything about it. There are people in the word who still say "I will not fight back." This is not how one should role model to their spouse, child or society. Self defense is a God given right. If someone strikes you and they intend to purse the matter no further, let it go. If someone, however, attempts to do serious damage or is presenting a serious threat, RESPOND!

"""It also brings to mind every religious, fundamentalist zealot that is sure 'his' god is the one true god, and that showing 'tolerance' for another mans beliefs or god is a disservice. """

On the contrary. Many times it is a feeling of being in a lifeboat and trying to get the people in the water to get in. It's unbelievable when they don't and horrid when they try to get others to jump in the water with them.

Good debate.

Demi

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I'd like to say a few things if I may.

First, both of you have wonderful points, and it's nice to see such thought out discussions on this board.

Second, I do think that "tolerance" like anything else must be used with understanding, intelligence, and good judgment.
To "tolerate" what is undeniably unjust, evil, immoral, etc. is a travesty in my opinion.
Now that being said, correct judgment on people, situations, emotions, etc. requires knowledge. Rashly jumping to conclusions, holding people and ideas in contempt before knowing much about them is (as Matt said) one of the many plagues facing society today.
However I think another plague is the direct opposite. Moral relativism and "unconditional tolerance" is also a plague.

There are plenty of things one should not tolerate in life.

I do not tolerate rape.

I do not tolerate murder.

I do not tolerate people taking advantage of others or treating them unjustly.

I do not think this was being said, but it's a point I wanted to make anyway.

As to the story about the monk and the Chinese. Well yes, it's admirable that he sticks to his convictions, but if what the Chinese were doing was provably wrong (and yes, anyone including groups of people, governments, etc. can be in the wrong), is it "admirable" to tolerate the behavior?

Is it instead better to hold room for knowledgable and intelligent indignation?

Is the monk a "real man" (meaning that a human being who grows indignant of his unjust treatment is somehow not a "real man") because he refuses to deny his religious convictions? Possibly, but what if the monk indeed found a way to fight back his situation and take a stand in saying that what was being done was wrong? Is that not admirable?

There's a difference in feeling love towards all people, and tolerating their unjust, malicious, and sometimes just plain evil actions, motivations, etc.

I would tend to say that a healthy dose of "righteous anger" is indeed an ingredient that a "real man" has who does love his neighbor.

"Tolerance" is a good catch word. But people must ask themselves what it is that they are "tolerating."


I very much agree with Matt on the issue of the "streetfighter" guys and "military killers" who have never served.

Ryu

[Ryu (JKD?)]

When I spoke of tolerance I meant "good people" tolerating the actions of "evil people" and not doing anything about it. There are people in the word who still say "I will not fight back." This is not how one should role model to their spouse, child or society. Self defense is a God given right. If someone strikes you and they intend to purse the matter no further, let it go. If someone, however, attempts to do serious damage or is presenting a serious threat, RESPOND!



Demi

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[robertlee]

Weapons Are not allways there avalibale when you need them. Sure its good to train in some . Even the hand gun. But for a hand gun all you need to do is learn to be able to hit the target at a certion distance. The real hard part. Would be willing to really kill someone. To many times a person pulls a gun to create fear on the other and not use it. People come to the different M/A s for several reasons. Selfdefence sometimes comes first for reason. But alot of times those people are the first to stop and forget about it. They find out it takes time to train and get good. So they leave. The ones that stay .Stay because they are starting to like the training and are willing to set goals and sacrafices to learn. The M/A field has now many schools of training. And just a few that I would say have turned out what you would call real fighters. But there have been many thousands that trained learned and went on to be ab etter person. Its not about fear it about learning to deal wisley with your problems. The fighter type leaning mopre towards the bully. Whip there *** and its over. Well sometimes in todays world it just began. People SUE for any reason now. RESPECT has gone out the window. Perhaps Its time to see the M/A goal is to yes learn selfdefence. But also Respect of others. If you look really past the youth age wher young people have less control over there actions and reactions. We will say past 25 years old. You find that fighting becomes less to you. unless You have a tendancy to go to placees that often resort to that. LIfe its free to live. Being smart being alert. helps much on what may happen . But never bar the doors peek out the windows and be afraid to go into the public. We can not control what going on out there. But as instructors as students We learn that peace comes with trust and respect. Past on more become better people then better fighters. Because as I said We are the same And good fighters In the true M/A side are also good people. So good training alive training or even classical kata. ect. If it makes you a better person do it. We really do not have to worry every timew we take our faMILY OUT tHAT SOMETHING MAY HAPPEN. iF WE DO PERHAPS ITS TIME TO SEE THE DOCTOR FOR THAT PROBLEM.

[smartmonkey]

"If someone, however, attempts to do serious damage or is presenting a serious threat, RESPOND!'


Yes, no doubt. Non issue from this point of view.


"""It also brings to mind every religious, fundamentalist zealot that is sure 'his' god is the one true god, and that showing 'tolerance' for another mans beliefs or god is a disservice. """

""On the contrary. Many times it is a feeling of being in a lifeboat and trying to get the people in the water to get in.""


Yes Demi, that's exactly what the Muslim funatics say, and believe as well. No doubt, as it has always been, that is very common point of view on this Earth.


Enjoy the day.
-Matt Thornton

https://www.straightblastgym.com

[brokenelbow]

As husbands and fathers, we are not driven by paranoia or self preservation for the sake of the "self". We are motivated by obligation and responsibility. It is one part of how we show love to our family and friends. It is a very honorable part of our role.

True, but my first line of defense for my famly is as a provider. Making the mortgage, making enough to move to a better part of town, not wasting money so that my kids have a chance to go to college and being a good role model are the main methods of providing safety for them. Oddly when we talk about protecting our families we rarely mention things like learn first aid, mouth to mouth or any of the things that we stand more of a chance of using.

[Demi Barbito]

"""Yes Demi, that's exactly what the Muslim funatics say"""

No they don't. They fly planes into buildings.

Demi