How tough was Bruce Lee?

[lucidmist]

with most of the Bruce Lee detractors out there, they used the fact that he was an actor to discredit his martial or fighting abilities. i don't think you can bring a man down in fighting skill just because he's an actor, singer, artist, cook, teacher, babysitter, whatever. if you have been training for over a decade to fight, just becos some movie director gives you a part to play in a film doesn't make you a fake martial artist.

also, many of the people who gave their accounts of Bruce Lee were not related to him, or connected to JKD. they were in another discipline entirely, and did not take up JKD or Wing Chun. there would've been no need for them to sing Bruce's praises. it would've made their art or themselves look weaker becos there's always a chance that it would seem like they were acknowledging someone else from another style was better.

Bruce also never once said that he was THE Best. Neither did he say that he was one of the best. But that doesn't mean he can't fight.

for most people who've just trained a year in martial arts consistently with regular practice, i'm sure you'd have noticed the increase in punching power and speed in general. Bruce trained over a decade. Even if he couldn't beat everyone, he would've attained some measure of speed, power and proficiency (not saying having more years in training = better fighter, but at least there's a good chance of that). And judging by how people were flocking to him for tips and lessons, even through sparring, he would've proved a fair level of prowess. of course, it'd be easier to prove oneself through sparring than an actual fight, cos confidence during sparring tends to be higher. but speed and reflexes can be gauged through sparring.

just some opinions.

[mano012sg]

"If you don't want to accept something, you will almost always find a flaw; If you want to except something, you will always find it's worth. However, if you neither accept nor reject it, just see it as IT IS...then you will see the Truth" -- Anonymous.

[mano012sg]

bruce lee was extremely skilled. yeah he is idolized alot, but he had skill. the speed and power he could generate was insane for a person of his size. i think he would decimate people in his weight division if he was to compete in mma. if this dude could generate so much power in his 1 inch punch, i would think a full powered punch by him would cause absolute devastation. bruce lee acheived skills that most of us never will. i aint a bruce lee worshiper or anything, but from what ive read about him, and from the footage ive seen of him at seminars and whatnot, its evident that bruce had extreme skills that most of us will never have.

My friend...I am not kidding here...but I believe you have got the essence of JKD. coz your view is not partial or impartial. its just direct and logical. btw...this is also Bruce Lee's philosophy. But for you...this is how you see the truth...without taking sides. (or is some one gonna argue on this point?)

[dimmak786]

If Bruce was alive and competing in this day and age. I beleive he would have been the first MMA to kill someone live on a payperview.

I beleive he would have exposed all the shaolin tricksters of this day as fraud especially that celebrity bum teaching up in new york.

He would have been 150 ilbs of lean muscle not 130 and he wouldnt have lost any speed or power.
I beleive Bruce would have revelled in having all these new cross training avenues open and would certainly have been a world champion in MMA.

he probably would have had a short distinguished career in MMA while he concentrated on writing and directing movies.

A career similar to Bas Ruttens or Royce and Rickson Gracie in UFC/Pride where he got in made his point and got out

[bodhisattva]

Sort of a weird question, maybe absurdly n00bish. I know nothing about Martial Arts except what I learned in Tae Kwon Do about 10 years ago, when I was 11. I know he's respected as an innovator and a pioneer, a sort of Renaissance Man, but could he kick my ass? Was he truly feared as a fighter, or was it all kind of aesthetic? Did he ever have any sort of competitive fights? Can he genuinely be considered one of the toughest SOBs, and how would he stack up against modern Martial Arts champions?

Just sort of interested, I love his movies and I find him to be extremely charismatic, and... well, he looks to me like a tough little guy. The Lee vs Norris fight scene is what made me look into Martial Arts initially.

I don't know how tough Bruce was, but he was definitely a pioneer. If you read through the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Bruce was studying western boxing and judo and wrestling. In a sense, he was very truly the first Mixed Martial Artist to come out of the 60's/70's.

Which is why it is always kind of weird to me that people who pursue Jeet Kune Do often do Wing Chun. That's where Bruce started. That's not where he eventually went.

--

I'm not sure whether Bruce would be a world champion in MMA (if he were alive today) or not. He wasn't a world champion full contact kickboxer, or a world champion Judoka, or a world champion western wrestler or boxer. He fenced, but was not a world champion fencer. So I don't know about that statement that he would be a world champion in MMA today.

I do agree he'd revel in all the cross training. He was the guy that re-invented the cross training.

[dimmak786]

Re "I'm not sure whether Bruce would be a world champion in MMA (if he were alive today) or not. He wasn't a world champion full contact kickboxer, or a world champion Judoka, or a world champion western wrestler or boxer. He fenced, but was not a world champion fencer. So I don't know about that statement that he would be a world champion in MMA today."

And is being a world champ in those disciplines any kind of gauge as to how he would do in MMA? Is being a champ in any of those fields a pre-requisite to being a world champ in MMA???!!

NO. Your post is ridiculous.

Few if any MMA "world champs" have been good enough to cut it in those other fields or disciplines.

Randy Couture couldnt even get his old arse into the olympics let alone win it.
Sakuaraba was a pro wrestler play fighting for a living.
Lidell would get kayoed by anyone average in K1 . The gRacies were only world champs in Brazil.
On theother side of the coin Hideoka Yoshia an olympic champ in judo was only average in MMA. World champ boxers Ray mercer, Frans Botha and Shannon Briggs have been poor in MMA. A world champ kickboxer maurice smith was a MMA world champion.

So there is no hard and fast rule.

I think Bruce's inate freakish strength, speed and mind would have murdered any modern day MMA fighter under 180.

[Tant01]

Or not...

I don't know how tough Bruce was, but he was definitely a pioneer. If you read through the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Bruce was studying western boxing and judo and wrestling. In a sense, he was very truly the first Mixed Martial Artist to come out of the 60's/70's.

......

Very truly NOT.

Hate to tell you this but your "facts" are wrong again! He may have been the most well known (popular) mixed martial artist but the KAJUKENBO guys were doing it before BL made his own personal non-traditional kung fu "style".

Some silat guys were adapting Judo and western boxing into their styles too. Is that "MMA"?

You might do some actual RESEARCH before you go spouting your so called "truth" Bodhi...

Just a thought.

[fenwick99]

re:

I think that Bruce was a tough guy. Some of his attributes would have translated well into the ring, while others would have been "lost in translation." Like Royce Gracie, and this is the main point, Bruce in his prime
(or even a 67-year-old Bruce if he were alive today) could have defeated most, if not all, of his internet haters. Internet talkers have taken a more literal beating ever since PRIDE was bought out by UFC. Only Rampage, of the pride guys, has lived up to his hype. Others such as Wanderlei, Crocop,
Shogun have been beaten by guys they were supposed to dominate. All that
remains to be seen is a fight been former pride fighter Anderson Silva and
a 185-lb. Dan Henderson. This may be the fight of the century. If Hendo gets
knocked out by Silva's very-high-level muay thai, Dana White will be smirking
and emmeffing and effing his way to the bank once again, and all of the Internet mouths will ring hollow once more. BTW I don't worship Bruce, nor do I think he was the best. But was he damn good, yes.

[jubaji]

Re "I'm not sure whether Bruce would be a world champion in MMA (if he were alive today) or not. He wasn't a world champion full contact kickboxer, or a world champion Judoka, or a world champion western wrestler or boxer. He fenced, but was not a world champion fencer. So I don't know about that statement that he would be a world champion in MMA today."

And is being a world champ in those disciplines any kind of gauge as to how he would do in MMA? Is being a champ in any of those fields a pre-requisite to being a world champ in MMA???!!

NO. Your post is ridiculous.

Few if any MMA "world champs" have been good enough to cut it in those other fields or disciplines.

Randy Couture couldnt even get his old arse into the olympics let alone win it.
Sakuaraba was a pro wrestler play fighting for a living.
Lidell would get kayoed by anyone average in K1 . The gRacies were only world champs in Brazil.
On theother side of the coin Hideoka Yoshia an olympic champ in judo was only average in MMA. World champ boxers Ray mercer, Frans Botha and Shannon Briggs have been poor in MMA. A world champ kickboxer maurice smith was a MMA world champion.

So there is no hard and fast rule.

I think Bruce's inate freakish strength, speed and mind would have murdered any modern day MMA fighter under 180.

I think that sucking on the nuts of a dead man has given you brain damage.

[likeWater90]

bruce lee did have competitive fights, ever watch the bbc series mind,body kick ass moves? long story short its a series where the host (who has extensive martial arts background) travels the world showing different martial arts ect.

in one episode he goes to hong kong and meets the grandson of the man who taught bruce lee wing chun (the grandson is pretty old now lol), now one of the stories mentioned was that, there would regularly be fights organized by teachers and their pupils, this one fight was on a rooftop of a small apartment building, now bruce was getting his ass handed to him and wanted to throw in the towel coz he was stuffed but his teacher forced him to fight and bruce later on won that fight, i dunno if these sort of fights still occur but since then bruce pushed him self further and thats how he turned into a great martial artist. how strong was he? no different from you and me. if you train like he did then you'd probably be at his level, if something has been achieved by someone then theres deffinatly a possibility that it can be done again.

[Caveman]

Bruce was wicked fast. He also had a LOT of power behind his kicks and punches. But truth be told that Martial Arts have come a long way since then.

[Justthefacts]

History

Bruce Lee was certainly more street tough than most of the martial artists of his era. The only martial artists of the 60's-early 70's that had reputations for street toughness were Fred Wren, Joe Lewis, Louis Delgado, and Thomas LaPuppet. Since Lee did not compete in point or full contact matches, it's difficult to determine how well he would have done in those circumstances. He sparred full contact with the likes of Dan Inosanto and Larry Hartsell and point sparred with Chuck Norris and Louis Delgado, but it's impossible to measure his abilities without a tangible outcome.

Justthefacts

[Ghost]

Bruce Lee was certainly more street tough than most of the martial artists of his era. The only martial artists of the 60's-early 70's that had reputations for street toughness were Fred Wren, Joe Lewis, Louis Delgado, and Thomas LaPuppet. Since Lee did not compete in point or full contact matches, it's difficult to determine how well he would have done in those circumstances. He sparred full contact with the likes of Dan Inosanto and Larry Hartsell and point sparred with Chuck Norris and Louis Delgado, but it's impossible to measure his abilities without a tangible outcome.

Justthefacts

So what does that mean.

"i think he was really good but there is no proof"

Is that it?

[Justthefacts]

Clear Stance

My stance on Lee's toughness was quite clear in my post. There are two types of toughness in the martial arts world, street fighting ability and competing in the sporting arena. Lee proved that he was a capable street fighter who never backed down from a challenge in his life. We have no data to go by when determining how he would have fared in a kickboxing match or in a point fighting tournament. The recollections of Chuck Norris, Louis Delgado, and George Dillman indicate that Lee would have done quite well, but we'll never know for sure.

Justthefacts

[Tant01]

How tough indeed

My stance on Lee's toughness was quite clear in my post. There are two types of toughness in the martial arts world, street fighting ability and competing in the sporting arena. Lee proved that he was a capable street fighter who never backed down from a challenge in his life. We have no data to go by when determining how he would have fared in a kickboxing match or in a point fighting tournament. The recollections of Chuck Norris, Louis Delgado, and George Dillman indicate that Lee would have done quite well, but we'll never know for sure.

Justthefacts

I always wanted to know that myself. Back in the day I did a lot of "testing". I never rolled with Gene LaBelle or sparred with Chuck Norris.
I'm pretty much a nobody, don't even hold rank. But I'm tough and I'm quick. I've kicked a few asses. I wanted to test myself against the very best. I seen him in movies and thought to myself, he ain't all that... I could take him. I know just how I'd do it to. He might be the quickest fighter of all time. He might hit like a truck. He could kick my ass in a heart beat if I let him. There is no way in hell I'd fight a guy like that, I'd just have to kill him.

So I did. Don't tell anyone it was me. My black magic did the trick!