nerve martial arts???

[BoarSpear]

I bring you Dim Mak http://www.subfighter.com/modules.ph...ailed&lid=1118

Ugh a coupla points here, 1) your link requires a password.

2) I recognize the clip from the discription though... thats not Dim Mak, thats Dim Wit.

[Asta]

Ugh.. Sorry. I've been auto logged in on that site for so long that i forgot you needed to register to watch it.

[Kenpodog]

Do you mean the groin???

I was only kidding with that comment, I didn't expect this thread to take off because nerve striking only comes after years of training (in American Kenpo).
We learn to strike certain areas/parts of the body during the execution of techniques and the natural progression as we become more proficient with our techniques and more accurate with our strikes is "nerve striking" as well as joint manipulations and depth penetrations. I'm no where near that level yet, but as we continue to learn, we realize that "nerve striking" had always been part of the technique and we also learn many hidden moves and "inserts" within each technique as well as "extensions".
In American Kenpo, you are always learning more and more about even the most basic techniques.
You never stop learning and the occasional "now, I get it" and "Oh, that's why they do that" or my favorite "this is just like XYZ, but sideways (on a horizontal plane)" makes Kenpo fun.
Summary:
To strike nerves, you have have to be extremely accurate which only comes with practice (possibly many years).

[Kenpodog]

See Master Tu's article....

Truly an inspiration!!
He gives the phrase "getting hard" new meaning!!

[Nutz]

[Snip]I didn't expect this thread to take off because nerve striking only comes after years of training (in American Kenpo).
...
To strike nerves, you have have to be extremely accurate which only comes with practice (possibly many years).

Quite the contrary, I was learning these concepts and techniques my first month of JKD as part of disruption tactics, stop hits, and interception. In my eyes, nerve "destructions" (aka disruption) are an elementary component of what we do. Maybe its because I was introduced to them so very early on?

A few of the points I focus on is the nerve that runs along the outside of the thigh (sciatica), the inside of the biceps and back of the triceps (useful in armbars), the fleshy place just under the nose (if you need to get someone's head up for a choke, just apply a bit of pressure there), and all around neck. Those are the main points that I train since they're the easisest to get to in a real situation, especially so for the neck and leg nerves I just described.

[missionaryman12]

With less than 5 percent of total body power! there are 2 man sets with attack and defense built in that teach the timing and placement as well as angle of attack of the strikes. Some people recommend wrapping the arms in newspaper when learning the forms. You usually feel like shit for a couple of days after spending a weekend having those points hit over and over in drills if you dont, but its hard to learn about the points if you do!
Amen dude. I have been practicing it pretty much my entire adult life, there are less than a dozen targets i advocate using and 75% of those are in the head and neck area.

Boarspear where have you been practicing at? and with what style? is is Dim Mak or some other style?

[missionaryman12]

Quite the contrary, I was learning these concepts and techniques my first month of JKD as part of disruption tactics, stop hits, and interception. In my eyes, nerve "destructions" (aka disruption) are an elementary component of what we do. Maybe its because I was introduced to them so very early on?
A few of the points I focus on is the nerve that runs along the outside of the thigh (sciatica), the inside of the biceps and back of the triceps (useful in armbars), the fleshy place just under the nose (if you need to get someone's head up for a choke, just apply a bit of pressure there), and all around neck. Those are the main points that I train since they're the easisest to get to in a real situation, especially so for the neck and leg nerves I just described.

Nutz where do you learn these things at?

[Penance]

This shit has been debunked. Dim Mak is bullshit and so are most "nerve-based" martial arts.

Seriously, there were a bunch of BJJ guys who volunteered to let supposed Dim Mak masters demonstrate their techniques. The Dim Mak guys put on all their nerve pinches and the whole time the BJJ guys are just looking around like...uh ok, are you doing anything yet?

There are some very vulnerable nerves in the body, for sure. For instance, the occipital triangle nerves on the sides of the neck: http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/...f/ga/l/512.gif

that when struck hard enough can knock you silly. (See the video of the guy knocking the pimp out) Also, the temple areas of the head, the spinal cord of course, behind the lobe of the ear near the jaw hinge.

The thing is....are there enough practical and devestating attacks to make up an entire martial art? No way.

Be very skeptical.

[BoarSpear]

Boarspear where have you been practicing at? and with what style? is is Dim Mak or some other style?

I grew up in a martial art family, (father, grandfather, uncles and brothers) We use the CMA's as a base art (Taiji, Baqua, Hsin yi, Shuai jaio) with a heavy dose of combatives and FMA/ Silat laid over the top. Dim mak isnt a style, it is a component of the arts, people who tell you they teach the "style" Dim mak are after your money I was taught the martial arts for the scenario where my weapon was unusable and the other guys wasnt, We usually acted as though they had a gun or knife and the situation was deadly so we tend to have a different view of the Martial arts than most.

Overall though, Im a Taiji guy

[Nutz]

Nutz where do you learn these things at?

My original instructor, Dave Durch, incorporated them into his JKD teachings as it worked for him due to his quickness. It was his way of following suite with the "intercepting the fist" train of thought. For me, a forearm to the side of the neck will daze someone the same as a parry to the inside of the arm if you're close enough--with force it pops that nerve ever so slightly to give the mind that split second pause you need to flow into the next strike. In other words its just used ot keep their brain occupied processing sensations to let you do your work. In other words, every little bit helps. You're not really trying to hurt the guy by tagging parts of the body, but just give his arm that funny-bone affect (if you can).

And if you lay into someone's sciatica properly, you can have this kind of effect

[BoarSpear]

This shit has been debunked. Dim Mak is bullshit and so are most "nerve-based" martial arts.

Seriously, there were a bunch of BJJ guys who volunteered to let supposed Dim Mak masters demonstrate their techniques. The Dim Mak guys put on all their nerve pinches and the whole time the BJJ guys are just looking around like...uh ok, are you doing anything yet?

There are some very vulnerable nerves in the body, for sure. For instance, the occipital triangle nerves on the sides of the neck: http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/...f/ga/l/512.gif

that when struck hard enough can knock you silly. (See the video of the guy knocking the pimp out) Also, the temple areas of the head, the spinal cord of course, behind the lobe of the ear near the jaw hinge.

The thing is....are there enough practical and devestating attacks to make up an entire martial art? No way.

Be very skeptical.

Ugh, there are PLENTY of nerve strikes that will stop you in your tracks....none of those have been tested on your BJJ people by the frauds because they try no contact K.O.s at NO point has there been a BJJ guy who withstood St-9 or GB-20 stikes or withstood a GV-26 press for that matter

NO there is NOT an entire art of this stuff but the TMAs are full of these techniques when properly taught.

Oh btw they werent multiple Masters of Dim MAK, it was ONE DILLMAN Fraud teacher and several of his students.

[gong fu]

many styles focus on hitting vital spots or pressure points/nerves. if you completely learn and understand the biology of your own body then you understand how many spots there actually are on a body, and how to manipulate the opponent using these points, not only strikes on vital spots, like simply understanding the mechanics of the human body, like how arms and legs collapse when tensed and straighterned and you strike back of knee or front of elbow and fold te arm, or if a regular person has hold of your wrist with 1 hand to remove the hand (in most circumstances unless conditioned GI Joe kung fu grip is on your wrist) quickly pull your arm outwards in the direction where hisindex and thumb meet griping you (the weak link to a wrist grip). simple things like knowing your own body and its mechanics are vital to know for a martial artist.

[Penance]

But body mechanics and breaking a wrist grip has nothing to do with nerve strikes/techniques.

If I stand still and let you strike whatever part of me you want, I'm sure you'll be able to find 1000 spots that send me crumpled to the ground.

Do it in a real fight though.

If I've got you in my guard and I'm grabbing your wrist, there's a shitload of MECHANICAL things you can do to break the grip. My wrist and arm only bend in certain ways and within certain limits. But just digging your thumb into a "special point" isn't going to make me release my grip and paralyze my arm. It's going to make me punch you in the face with my other hand and arm bar you.

[Nutz]

gong fu & Penance, I think you missed the point of how nerve strikes can be applied in real situations. They're not the goal in of themself, but simply a bonus target, that if met in the course of an attack/defense technique merely assists in gaining control, a strike and/or chain strikes (entry into SB), etc.

For exmple, you are attacked with a stiff right cross from you opponent, so you sidestep to you right while an inside knuckle strike to the biceps or tricepts of the attackers extended arm. If you tag the nerve, great. But the action of getting your arm in for the "nerve attack" is merely part of the greater action of, say, an inside finger jab. You just stopped at the arm while your counter was on its way to the final target (meanwhile your rear guard hand is what parried his punch up by your face). Now, THIS WAS JUST A ROUGH EXAMPLE TO ILLUSTRATE A POINT IN TIME WHEN A NERVE CAN BE ATTACKED. I understand reality is far different due to a billion different factors.

Personally speaking, I'm not that big on destructions anymore as A. I'm not that quick, and B. for the most part I've found you need to see it coming. Since I train for the unexpected encounter I figure I'll be working off of a surprise attack (i.e. sucker punch), which in reality, more often than not goes to the clinch before you have a real chance to do anything besides cover. This works for me as I can go straight into HKE if possible, possible toss in a SB, and when he's recoiling or falls, break engagement and make my escape. From what I've seen you're got about 3-5 seconds to make your escape if/when fighting for your life. Though multiple attackers can muddy the timeline.

[BoarSpear]

The boy is confused....

But body mechanics and breaking a wrist grip has nothing to do with nerve strikes/techniques.

If I stand still and let you strike whatever part of me you want, I'm sure you'll be able to find 1000 spots that send me crumpled to the ground.

Do it in a real fight though.

If I've got you in my guard and I'm grabbing your wrist, there's a shitload of MECHANICAL things you can do to break the grip. My wrist and arm only bend in certain ways and within certain limits. But just digging your thumb into a "special point" isn't going to make me release my grip and paralyze my arm. It's going to make me punch you in the face with my other hand and arm bar you.

You dont really grasp the concepts at all do you? first youve gotta get my wrist , when you do im gonna fold the limb and bust your head with my elbow ( in technical dim mak speak) never mind the other hand doing the exact same freakin thing to the other side of your throat and head. go ahead, jump gaurd with a jujutsu trained iron palm guy... i will beat you fuckin senseless...ive been doing both arts for longer than you've probably been alive, the ground game aint new, its just new to TV. can you throw me? or are you counting on buttfloppin? or perhaps some single or double leg takedowns? The very arts you claim to practice make use of nerve attacks.