Did Bruce Ever Fight Thai Boxers?

[fenwick99]

re

As much as I admire Bruce, he was wrong about a few things,and the
general effectiveness of Muay Thai, as far as I am concerned, is one of them.
Nothing against Bruce, I just thing he was incorrect here. As far as combat is concerned, Bruce Lee probably could've used the jab/cross to defeat any thai boxer. Plus, muay thai is weak against all uppercuts: the boxer's uppercut, the wing chun lifting punch, the hsingyi 45-degree uppercut, the joe lewis variation, etc. etc. I think Bruce Lee's wicked left uppercut would have destroyed any thai near his size. However, if a thai boxer could have survived Bruce's hands, Bruce would have been in real trouble. First, Bruce's skinny, 100-lb. squatting legs would have been easy targets for the leg kick. Second, Bruce would not have been able to pummell with a thai boxer, and he would have eaten knees and elbows in the clinch. Third, Lee was in shape to beat karate and kungfu men, but could he have withstood 15 minutes of continuous battering by a professional thai boxer? I don't know. That said, one could argue that Lee's western boxing and his footwork were so untouchable, that a thai boxer would be to clumsy to touch Bruce.
Again, who knows?

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

well, there are several points at work here.

one, did brucelee fight a thai boxer? well, yes. it was not a muaythai match. the guy wanted to "compare notes". apparently he was familiar with the idea of jkd. it is not clear if he studied jkd itself, or just found something about it familiar.

mind you, this took place on a movie set. it is entirely possible it was staged. but, brucelee and thaiguy were there, they exchanged blows. the fact that noone in the crew intervened suggests they understood what was happening and that noone was in any real danger.

two, brucelee on muaythai. according to his comments, it was inferior. at that time, it was. it was being tested by kyokushin fighters and such. around that time one of the muaythai champions was toshiofujiwara of japan. that period was likely a time of evolution for muaythai. so the comments by brucelee may have had a basis in reality. it seems probable, based on his limited exposure to muaythai, and his occupation (actor, travelling, schedules) may have made serious training in muaythai impossible. we also don't know the skill level of the fighters brucelee observed.

considering his candid personality and his "application oriented" methods, the fighters he observed probably weren't very good, or at least, very experienced.

had brucelee fought a guy like ennfairtex (aka enntex), in would have been disasterous for brucelee (assuming it is the 1960s brucelee and not a brucelee who trained muaythai for another 15 years).

yep. not much accomplished here. just a thought. or a couple thoughts.

thanks.

[snowflake]

In one of the popular Lee documentaries, the supporting actor in the Big Boss was the actual witness in the challenge match in Thailand. Bruce simply got in their defenses and out effortlessly, end of fight and.... end of speculation. :-)

[fenwick99]

Re

Inosanto's friendship with Master Chai and the proven effectiveness
of Muay Thai in the ring trumps all of this nonsense; Bruce was simply wrong
about Muay Thai. One point though, for Bruce's personal style the lead side kick and lead hook kick made sense because using in-and-out footwork, they are the only kicks that do not expose the groin. The rear hook is listed in the TAO as a "tool" of jkd, but overall, Bruce's fottwork demanded mainly the side kick, which worked for him.

[WildWest.]

Perhaps he had rooftop fights with Thai Boxers. As well as everyone else.

In fact a guy I know says that he knows a guy who's dog's previous owner knew a guy who says that he knows, beyond doubt, that he knows a guy who says that he knew a guy who said that Bruce might have fought a guy he knew he thought he knew who may have done Thai Boxing, or thought he knew Thai Boxing.

Anyway, no matter what happened, Bruce won easily against 10 of 'em.

I heard the same story.

[Thai Bri]

Perhaps he had rooftop fights with Thai Boxers. As well as everyone else.

In fact a guy I know says that he knows a guy who's dog's previous owner knew a guy who says that he knows, beyond doubt, that he knows a guy who says that he knew a guy who said that Bruce might have fought a guy he knew he thought he knew who may have done Thai Boxing, or thought he knew Thai Boxing.

Anyway, no matter what happened, Bruce won easily against 10 of 'em.

[Tee Sok]

Yes, that's also what Inosanto said. MT wasn't what it has been for some years now. Both boxing and footwork have improved.

[Razinghell]

I just wanted to point out one thing about MT that is a little off topic but valid nonetheless IMO. When BL was in Thailand studying he made some observations on the art of that time. Just like most arts the have evolved and become better. As far as MT is concerned it has come a long way since the 60's. The mobility is better and the boxing technique has made huge leaps and bounds. I think BL would have really enjoyed modern day Muay Thai. Just some thing to think about.

[Beungood]

Chuck Norris?

Can Chuck Norris beat up on Thai fighters? If he went to Thailand would he kill all Thighfighters and their future sons? He scares me.

[William]

... I don't know if he sparred any or not, but he did talk to Bremer about what he observed in Thailand. He told Bob that the Thai fighters were the John L Sullivan's of the ring as they had a lot of preparation in their techniques. While they had good knees and elbows, he found their punching lacking. He told Bob, "They are very unsophisticated, but the come in honestly". I don't know if he saw any real quality Thai fighters like Chai or Saksen. Saksen has little or no preparation in his kick.

Interesting. I've heard similar statements from people from more "traditional" systems. That Thai fighters "seem sloppy in their movements" and could be easily overcome/outmaneuvered. Yet those same people found it very difficult to deal with them once they actually went toe to toe with one. I'm not saying MT is invincible, but...what you see, and what you get, are two very different things.

Did BL ever fight a good Thai fighter? I don't know. The story I heard was that he fought the No 2. fighter in Thailand when Master Chai was Champion...and won. And, that supposedly po'd Master Chai since he should have fought the champ. Now, take that with a grain of salt because what you hear second hand (or multiply that by 100) , and what actually happened are often two very different things imho.


Just saying.


William

[Tom Yum]

While they had good knees and elbows, he found their punching lacking. He told Bob, "They are very unsophisticated, but the come in honestly".

Thanks, Tim.

I think this has been a common observation from a lot of people. This may have been why Europe was able to open up muay thai to the west.

I keep thinking about Ramon Dekkers...he was very comfortable fighting with elbows and knees, but he could box well and KO with both fists. Apparently, Hemmers and Vos alike were able to capitalize on this when training their European fighters.

[thtackett]

Bruce talked about Thai boxers in Vol 3 of the Little series, which is better than the Tao on JKD. See page 42. I don't know if he sparred any or not, but he did talk to Bremer about what he observed in Thailand. He told Bob that the Thai fighters were the John L Sullivan's of the ring as they had a lot of preparation in their techniques. While they had good knees and elbows, he found their punching lacking. He told Bob, "They are very unsophisticated, but the come in honestly". I don't know if he saw any real quality Thai fighters like Chai or Saksen. Saksen has little or no preparation in his kick.

[Garland]

was there supposed to be a link in there?

yeah...whoopsie. look for it on youtube.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Apparently Sigung Lee picked up a little Escrima while he was visiting the Philippines (as well as what Guro Dan showed him)...this is supposedly him at about the 4:30 mark kicking at an eskrimador he's sparring with.

was there supposed to be a link in there?

[KenshiRyan]

I think had Bruce lee lost it would have been in headlines and we would know about it, if he had won everyone wouldve thought welldone and wouldve been not too surprised as he did this often, and so wouldnt have had much to tell eveyone about in comparison to if he lost. Thats my point of veiw on it.