To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

[Ghost]

oh i definately think that some of the guys that are reffered to as masters are fakes, im sure of it.
anyway ive said all im going to say now i think, ive made my view hopefully clear enough. im not impressed with people fighting on film sets and rumours and accounts from friends in terms of fights that never appeared on film. if i were him i would have made the biggest effort possible to appear on film.
anyway this is done i think, we disagree, such is life, more important things in the world than this.

[lucidmist]

yeah, and i do agree many abuse the name of bruce lee and jkd. but that's separate from his fighting ability.

anyway, many instructors around have never had a documented fight, yet we're sure of their ability to. but either way, it's your view, and i just have a different one.
yep, that's life.

[Happy Cat]

Most of us have seen what Sifu Bruce and/or Sifu James's students and the second generation students can do. That should be enough to convince us that the founders of JKD had some powerful mojo.

Was Bruce one of the best fighters in the history of the world? I think so. Could he beat this guy or that guy? Any one can be beaten. A great martial artist could get into a bar fight and lose to someone who has never trained. Even Bruce was not invincible. But I would put my money on Bruce every time.

I know from watching my instructors, all Bruce would need to win was to touch you once. And with his speed and single minded determination, how are you going to stop that? That boy was a 138 LBS coiled spring, both phisicaly and mentaly.

[lucidmist]

yeah.. untrained people can be very tough to handle. it's easier said than done when it comes to handling big people who tend to rush and grab and grip and pull and tug - especially in close quarters when taking you by surprise. yep, anyone can be beaten.

[jubaji]

great, then the effect was right.

Absolutely. Don't be so scary, Lucy.

[Knuckles&Knees]

OK sir, very short version:

Many people feel that JKD is the physical art that Bruce Lee taught, therefore they just say that they train in JKD. Guro Inosanto's view is that the physical art taught during his era of study was Jun Fan Gung Fu, and that JKD was Bruce Lee's personal philosophy and expression of the martial arts. Therefore, Guro has always maintained that you can't "do" JKD, because you aren't Bruce Lee, but you can apply the "concepts" of what he taught to your personal martial arts journey.

Therefore, when people say they do JKD "Concepts", they typically crosstrain in a range of arts (Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali, Thai, BJJ etc) but they approach the study of these arts according to the "concepts" of JKD.

That is as short as I can make it.

And I see nothing wrong with that. Granted I'm a very much a novice or beginner in "JKD" but I've been impressed by much of what I've seen. The drawback is that because of crosstraining it can really take several years to build up and all-around base (standing, grappling, weapons). But sometimes good things are worth waiting for I guess.

I have some novice experience in western boxing as well. I have much respect for boxers. However, not all boxing gyms are necessarily "equal" nor boxing coaches. And not all boxers can beat up every guy that has never really fought before.

Personally - and this is just my opinion - but I think the vaunted "street fighter" is more over-hyped than anyone. I've been in some fights in my life before I ever had any western boxing training or learned any Muay Thai kicks, but *I know* I'm a more capable fighter now than I was then. Nonetheless, I suspect I'm not likely to do well against a 300 pound college football player in a very confined area - even if that 300 pound man has never been in a fist fight in his life.

Hit the right way just about anyone can get knocked down or knocked out by anyone - be they Bruce Lee, pro boxers, or UFC champions. I really believe that.

So, I ask myself, what makes a functionally illiterate 16 year old bully, more a "fighter" than Bruce Lee? (who by the way could bounce like a boxer) But the 16 year old or 13 year old girl can claim the vaunted title "street fighter" if they throw one punch or a series of windmill punches at a person equal or less equal to them in fighting.

Bruce Lee probably couldn't beat every MMA artist today (some I got a feeling he could - Bruce Lee had a very intuitive knowledge about his own body, how to move it and so forth). But he brought a very revolutionary approach to thinking about martial arts training. How many MMA fighters or boxers could Emmanuel Steward personally beat in a fight today? Yet his Kronks gym carried a good reputation.

[Guest]

And I see nothing wrong with that. .

Erm, no I see nothing wrong with it either sir, you know bearing in mind its what I do. I'm a little confused as to the gist of your post?

[lucidmist]

Absolutely. Don't be so scary, Lucy.

Aw.. sorry i scared you jubachicken. Just be a good little girl and it won't happen again.

[lucidmist]

knuckles, yeah, there's no such thing as an unbeatable or invincible fighter. everyone is bound to make mistakes at some point, and if the opponent happens to see the opportunity and can be quick enough to take it, that could be (not definitely) the fight-stopping blow.

[jubaji]

necro-fu

knuckles, yeah, there's no such thing as an unbeatable or invincible fighter.

Except you, right Lucy?

[lucidmist]

Except you, right Lucy?

Nah, but no one beats jubachicken at talkin' (or clucking). Too bad the j-chicken doesn't do any walkin' with the talkin'.

[IPON]

knuckles, yeah, there's no such thing as an unbeatable or invincible fighter. could be (not definitely) the fight-stopping blow.

I think this is the point. I completely understand what Ghost is saying when Bruce is mentioned it is like he was some unstoppable God. Now could he fight I am sure he could, was he an unstoppable force of nature ...no. And it is cultish in the JKD comunity one somewhat off remark of bruce or any JKD person is always met with somekind of brainwashed remarks. There is some good JKD but to be honest it really is a small amount becuase of how bastardized the style/philosophy is.

[lucidmist]

I think this is the point. I completely understand what Ghost is saying when Bruce is mentioned it is like he was some unstoppable God. Now could he fight I am sure he could, was he an unstoppable force of nature ...no. And it is cultish in the JKD comunity one somewhat off remark of bruce or any JKD person is always met with somekind of brainwashed remarks. There is some good JKD but to be honest it really is a small amount becuase of how bastardized the style/philosophy is.

yeah... many people do twist things out of proportion. i just felt that it wasn't fair for people to brush his fighting abilities off just cos he didn't compete, had no filmed fight footage, and was a movie star. if we simply write him off as a fighter cos of these few factors, then we're writing off a good lot of people, masters and instructors. i don't know why people don't see his one-time boxing victory or open demonstrations with thousands of witnesses as an indication that he could at least fight. he wasn't demonstrating flashy moves, kicks or somersaults like many demonstrations consist of. he demonstrated actual contact stuff that wasn't pre-arranged like other demonstrations. i never said Godlike, just that he could fight. i mean, it's a big difference if they brushed him off cos there were witnesses that saw him lose fights or challenges consistently. but to date, it's the other way round. he's no God, no one is.. but i'm sure he wasn't a pushover either.

i hope people disputing this can give some concrete statements or evidence that really proved he couldn't fight, not blind assumptions, because so far in all the other boards, i have seen none but generalized insults and comments over his ability. look, even accounts on why he couldn't fight, given by people who knew him, would be interesting to see too. at least something to even the scales of his Godhood.

not competing is simply not good enough to cancel someone off as an able fighter. i'm sure we all have friends that we know, who can really handle themselves well in most situations, but refuse to compete because of personal principles or some code of ethics they refuse to budge from. maybe bruce really didn't dare to compete cos he couldn't fight, i don't know, but can we see some real evidence of that, instead of blind assumptions?

[jubaji]

Nah, but no one beats jubachicken at talkin' (or clucking). Too bad the j-chicken doesn't do any walkin' with the talkin'.

Oooh, there it is! More of Lucy's scary talk!

[Ghost]

Lucidmist, whats your interpretation of the Wong Jack Man fight?

An account plus opinions here

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36846

I dont see any harm in dismissing people as fighters that are also Masters.
I have more respect for someone that is totally knowledgeable and can teach.
There are many, many martial artists that can fight really well but dont realy fully get what they are doing and cant teach it for shit.
THis comes back to what i was saying before with teaching and fighitng being two different things. Good techinique and great physical ability dont equal a good fighter, you can check out my thread in open access about what makes a good fighter and see peoples replies to see what i mean.
Meanness and heart came over skill and physical ability for just about everyone i think.
Bruce had skill and physical ability, but as you can see from that thread it doesnt prove a good fighter.