To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

[jubaji]

I did say that what you believe or not is up to you.

Yes, thank you. I have chosen to exercise the permission you so generously gave me.

And it's sad that your lack of actual fight experience has limited your mind.

*Bzzzzt!* Wrong! Try again.

Or maybe you just lack the ability, and having failed to attain further progress

*Bzzzzt!* Wrong! Try again.

i guarantee you there are people who have fought guys bigger than them and beat them.

Great. I don't recall denying that.

from my Grandpa, who was an ex gangleader, when gangs still believed on SOME occasions to have honorable one-on-ones, to my Godpa (ex boxer), to my uncles, and myself. heck, even when my Grandpa was in his 50s, he was still beating up guys bigger than him when they came to our house to kick up trouble! My home was a constant ground for fights cos of our family history, and it wasn't easy not to get dragged in after awhile!

LOL!!! Its always about this time that the personal anecdotes start ramping up, but the bit about grandpa the gangleader was a nice touch.

You can call it all BS. Your loss dude.

Thanks again for the permission.

I don't know if we'll ever meet. But until then, you can think what you want.

LOL!!! And with the implied threat he completes the entire set of BS posting! Congratulations!

[lucidmist]

Bruce Lee zombie versus White Zombie...who would win?

Bruce Lee's Zombie versus Lucio Fulci's Zombi II: Zombie Flesh Eaters, who would win?

Rob Zombie produced House of Thousand Corpses. Twisted bastard like that can't be beaten by anyone.

As for regular zombies.. if Lara Croft could do it, Tang Long from Way of Dragon can do it. Angelina Jolie and Bruce Lee - no way. (unless zombies still had a sex drive)

[lucidmist]

LOL!!!!! That is too funny! Could you pack more cliched BS into one paragraph? LOL! Read that out loud to yourself and tell me you don't laugh!

NO. You, him, or both of you were either slacking in practice or just stink.

BS? Hahaha! Nevermind man. After all, I did say that what you believe or not is up to you.

And it's sad that your lack of actual fight experience has limited your mind. Or maybe you just lack the ability, and having failed to attain further progress, you slam everyone else as fake and everything else as unfathomable - just because you couldn't do it. i guarantee you there are people who have fought guys bigger than them and beat them. not all, but enough to prove it isn't impossible. if you haven't, then that's sad. but even if you had, youd say no just to oppose my point. already, my own family line has done it a thousand times. from my Grandpa, who was an ex gangleader, when gangs still believed on SOME occasions to have honorable one-on-ones, to my Godpa (ex boxer), to my uncles, and myself. heck, even when my Grandpa was in his 50s, he was still beating up guys bigger than him when they came to our house to kick up trouble! My home was a constant ground for fights cos of our family history, and it wasn't easy not to get dragged in after awhile!

You can call it all BS. Your loss dude. I don't know if we'll ever meet. But until then, you can think what you want.

Whatever it is, Bruce Lee was no superman, or unbeatable champion - as with anyone. But he doesn't deserve to be called a "Fake" by anyone who hasn't even achieved half of what he had, and still is achieving even when dead - and that is inspiring people - which is the best thing that any martial artist or teacher can do for anyone.

[g-bells]

You can't 100% predict what will happen in a street fight, but you can within reason. I am wayyy more comfortable in a street conflict than in MMA. I grew up ina bad area, chilled with the wrong people, and did the wrong things for a while. I can almost predict how a confrontation is going to go everytime. And I can usually dictate and control the situation with my behavior. Not so in MMA.

Are you serious? your more comfortable in a street encounter than in a ring/cage?
either your lying or you are truly messed up!!!!

[jubaji]

my jkd master who learnt from another jkd master (an actual student of bruce's) asked this master if bruce was a good fighter, and the answer was yes. not the best, but he was good. and it wasn't just from this jkd master, another prominent grandmaster of hap ki do in korea said the same thing. i cannot mention names due to the crazy politics that i don't want to get involved in.

LOL!!!!! That is too funny! Could you pack more cliched BS into one paragraph? LOL! Read that out loud to yourself and tell me you don't laugh!

haven't we all fought the same guys that we had a tough time with during sparring but beat fairly easily in an actual fight cos we got really pissed and aggressive? .

NO. You, him, or both of you were either slacking in practice or just stink.

[lucidmist]

Let's see, the proof of what Ali did in the ring is pretty easy to find. How about the 'proof' of Lee doing anything in 'da street'?

since when was there a "da street"?

the sources for interviews, books, etc, would be enough - for me. however, i've got more verbal confirmation, which is good enough for me, too. my jkd master who learnt from another jkd master (an actual student of bruce's) asked this master if bruce was a good fighter, and the answer was yes. not the best, but he was good. and it wasn't just from this jkd master, another prominent grandmaster of hap ki do in korea said the same thing. i cannot mention names due to the crazy politics that i don't want to get involved in, but i don't expect you guys to agree, believe or accept whatever i say. i believe what i've heard and read. there're way too many sources to ignore. how many of us learnt from masters who never had footages of their fights but we believe they were good? if there was a videocam being toted around, then that wouldn't be a street fight! it would be a staged fight!

we all have different opinions on this. you're welcome to believe in yours. i believe in mine. haven't we all fought the same guys that we had a tough time with during sparring but beat fairly easily in an actual fight cos we got really pissed and aggressive? after you've met many people and sparred and fought many different people, you've understood that in many circumstances, things don't work in a definite way when it involves human emotion and psychology, under different circumstances. and like i said, i've seen many, not all, but enough ring fighters freeze in off-ring confrontations to understand that being tough in the ring doesn't necessarily mean being tough outside the ring.

[jubaji]

just as Bruce wasn't proven in the ring, Ali wasn't proven on the street.

Let's see, the proof of what Ali did in the ring is pretty easy to find. How about the 'proof' of Lee doing anything in 'da street'?

[Vader]

I don't remember where I read that.

The Lebell thing is well known, all you'd have to do is search it on google. Lee actually trained under Lebell for this reason. It makes sense though, why wouldn't a high level Judoka wup a kung fu guy?

The Norris thing was because they filmed some movie together. I'm not sure which one, but it was supposedly famous. They sparred off set, and the people there say Norris looked calm and in control the whole time.

***
Gene Lebelle was one of the few people, Bruce accepted as a teacher. Bruce Learnt Judo from Gene.

Bruce asked Chuck to be in one of his movies - Way of the dragon. Chuck was one of Bruces friends in real life and both had respect for each other. Bruce was Chuck Norris Teacher. Bruce never fought Chuck for 2 reasons.

1) He was his martial arts teacher.
2) Bruce didn't believe in tournament competitions and never competed in them.

He did however spar with Chuck.


Vader.

[lucidmist]

Yes, Ali had been in multiple street fights. He grew up in a poor, bad neighborhood. Not innercity, but ghetto none the less.

Size will always gain you an advantage. ALWAYS. Akebono was grossly out of shape, and I don't think anyone would ever consider him a high caliber fighter, outside of his sport. Way to compare two unlike people(Ali, Akebono).

Lee only STARTED to learn any grappling after Lebell moped him. He wouldn't have been able to do much to Ali on the ground, Ali probably would be more likely to choke him due to size, strength, and athletic advantage.


You can't 100% predict what will happen in a street fight, but you can within reason. I am wayyy more comfortable in a street conflict than in MMA. I grew up ina bad area, chilled with the wrong people, and did the wrong things for a while. I can almost predict how a confrontation is going to go everytime. And I can usually dictate and control the situation with my behavior. Not so in MMA.

Anyways, Merry Christmas!

Yo man, I agree that size definitely does have its advantages. But I have been in many situations (non-sparring) where I did maneuver faster than my opponent (who was much bigger than me) to attack him with ease. I have to admit, I "cheated". I distracted him with my movements and deliberately made my rhythms inconsistent. but I did beat him. It wasn't anything graceful, and I guess since I "cheated" (no I didn't gouge an eye out, but in a close struggle, I literally dug my nails into his face and pressed deeper and dragged). it wasn't an honourable win as many would say. I don't remember the other details, and I can't really recall how he tried to hurt me back. I had scratches, my shirt was torn, but I don't remember how I got all those. And I have to admit, it took alot more than a few punches to make him submit, and if he lasted, my stamina would've given up in time. But he beat my cousin up over a stupid thing and I was PISSED, I literally wanted to kill him. The funny thing was, my cousin knew about this guy (a MMA guy) sometime back, and we were supposed to spar, not have a real fight. But in the end, we got the actual thing. And no, I didn't beat everyone I fought, but many that I did beat were bigger guys than me. It is possible! But it was waay different when I was beaten by a bigger guy. I felt helpless, totally pinned and unable to move. Whereas when it was the other way round, the guy bigger than me still had grounds to struggle. So my point is, it really boils down to who gains the upper hand first, or who would be the faster one to drop the honourable guise and play dirty first, beyond the punches and kicks.

as for norris and bruce, I don't know much about their so-called sparring session. but as with ali and bruce, whoever is a fan of whoever will spout supportive comments in favor of his champ. but just by observation, i've seen norris execute punches and kicks. fast nonetheless, but nowhere near the speed of bruce. also, i've seen some books of norris. he seems to have ripped stuff from bruce. after he met bruce, he wasn't purely karate anymore. just an opinion, i'm not sure.

we will never agree, that I'm sure of it. but just as Bruce wasn't proven in the ring, Ali wasn't proven on the street. many may think being proven in the ring is sufficient. but after having seen so many freeze up outside the ring, i have my doubts. not all, but enough to convince me that being toughest in the ring means nothing.

and finally, one non-alcoholic Christmas for me.

[J-Luck]

J Luck,

Do you have any proof that Gene Lebell or Chuck Norris beat Bruce in a fight. If you do could you please post it.

Vader.

I don't remember where I read that.

The Lebell thing is well known, all you'd have to do is search it on google. Lee actually trained under Lebell for this reason. It makes sense though, why wouldn't a high level Judoka wup a kung fu guy?

The Norris thing was because they filmed some movie together. I'm not sure which one, but it was supposedly famous. They sparred off set, and the people there say Norris looked calm and in control the whole time.

[Vader]

You are wrong, he was defeated multiple times, and won a couple of times.

Gene Lebell was the most obvious person to beat him, but that was only because he easily crushed him.

Norris, because he's a nice, humble guy, claims Lee wupped him ass, but people around at the time say that Norris didn't have much trouble with Lee, and was holding back.

Check yoself fo' you speak son.

J Luck,

Do you have any proof that Gene Lebell or Chuck Norris beat Bruce in a fight. If you do could you please post it.

Vader.

[J-Luck]

hmm. it's Christmas, this just ain't worth the aggravation. i don't expect anything to get through to you guys, and i won't buy whatever putdowns you make of someone who's had positive acknowledgement from many people who knew him, watched him fight, but only had negative comments from people who've never met or known him. he's human man! him being an actor, getting a choke hold from lebell, even losing to ali, whatever, does not make him a fake. i never said he was THE BEST, but he was no fake. yep yep, none of the people who knew him knew whatever they were talking about. you guys know best. obviously they were liars, and you're all about truth, justice and the american way.

also, a fight in a ring is no easy job. i totally agree. it takes alot of willpower and courage. but the psychology of fighting on the street is very different. you have no idea of the probabilities, you don't know what else could happen beyond the fists and feet, and you don't know who else is gonna creep up on you next, besides the guy standing in front of you. you can insult me all you want, but if you ask me, i'd say it's easier to feel more confident fighting in the ring than on the street, even against an untrained thug, cos you never know what else is coming. no rules, no restraint on objects. look, don't get me wrong. i have alot of respect for competition fighters. many i know can kick butt inside and outside the ring. and there're also many street brawlers turned competition fighters who kick butt on the street but lose in the ring, and vice versa. but i've seen so many purely competitive fighters freeze up just when we were about to get rough with parking valets, bouncers, some guys from the bar, etc. not all, of course, but enough to convince me that being toughest in the ring doesn't mean being toughest on the street. it all boils down to the mind, not just the skills. and having killer willpower in the ring does not mean a killer willpower on the street. having superb courage in the ring does not constitute to having superb courage on the street.

that said, look, i'm sure we've fought with boxers (not in the ring) bigger than us, but we found that we could beat them. and my ground skills are shit but once on the ground, i realized the only thing a few of the boxers could do when you've grabbed their necks in a choke is that they'll try to pry your arms away, or try to hit your face over and over again even when the angle's way off, and they tend to forget to use their elbows or anything else. of course, AGAIN, i'm NOT saying all boxers fight like that. many can kill outside the ring.

and one more thing. even if it's not the best example, akebono (600 lbs?) vs royce gracie (180 lbs?), royce won. true, akebono was purely a champion sumo wrestler, but it still means that outside of one's own style, it doesn't mean size will gain you a definite advantage.

just curious. has ali ever been in a street fight or MMA fight before?

anyway, merry christmas. hope you had a good one.

Yes, Ali had been in multiple street fights. He grew up in a poor, bad neighborhood. Not innercity, but ghetto none the less.

Size will always gain you an advantage. ALWAYS. Akebono was grossly out of shape, and I don't think anyone would ever consider him a high caliber fighter, outside of his sport. Way to compare two unlike people(Ali, Akebono).

Lee only STARTED to learn any grappling after Lebell moped him. He wouldn't have been able to do much to Ali on the ground, Ali probably would be more likely to choke him due to size, strength, and athletic advantage.


You can't 100% predict what will happen in a street fight, but you can within reason. I am wayyy more comfortable in a street conflict than in MMA. I grew up ina bad area, chilled with the wrong people, and did the wrong things for a while. I can almost predict how a confrontation is going to go everytime. And I can usually dictate and control the situation with my behavior. Not so in MMA.

Anyways, Merry Christmas!

[J-Luck]

***

Bruce practiced and taught martial arts for years before we ever saw him using it in acting in the U.S and in his movies.

Back in the 60's and 70's when everyone was advocating points-sparring fighting in competition, Bruce was advocating Full Contact sparring. Bruce didn't believe in the semi-contact points fighting competitions, so he never entered competitions.

So if you don't enter competitions, it's a bit hard to get a so called 'fight' record. Not to mention these were 'sports fighting' competitions and not real fights. Real fights don't have referees and rules.


But Bruce did have real fights ie - challenges which he accepted. And he was never defeated in these challenge matches, which were not 'sporting semi-contact competition fights' but real fights.


Vader.

You are wrong, he was defeated multiple times, and won a couple of times.

Gene Lebell was the most obvious person to beat him, but that was only because he easily crushed him.

Norris, because he's a nice, humble guy, claims Lee wupped him ass, but people around at the time say that Norris didn't have much trouble with Lee, and was holding back.

Check yoself fo' you speak son.

[Vader]

Lee was an actor, a well conditioned martial artist(Though most experts feel he heavily over trained, and because of this, did not live up to his physical potential), and a good teacher with some good concepts, that spawned the idea of cross training.

Don't make him fit into your box.

***

Bruce practiced and taught martial arts for years before we ever saw him using it in acting in the U.S and in his movies.

Back in the 60's and 70's when everyone was advocating points-sparring fighting in competition, Bruce was advocating Full Contact sparring. Bruce didn't believe in the semi-contact points fighting competitions, so he never entered competitions.

So if you don't enter competitions, it's a bit hard to get a so called 'fight' record. Not to mention these were 'sports fighting' competitions and not real fights. Real fights don't have referees and rules.


But Bruce did have real fights ie - challenges which he accepted. And he was never defeated in these challenge matches, which were not 'sporting semi-contact competition fights' but real fights.


Vader.

[lucidmist]

Wow, that last post by lucymissed was just embarassing as hell!

whatever, dude. happy new year.