To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

[lucidmist]

Except you, right Lucy?

Nah, but no one beats jubachicken at talkin' (or clucking). Too bad the j-chicken doesn't do any walkin' with the talkin'.

[jubaji]

necro-fu

knuckles, yeah, there's no such thing as an unbeatable or invincible fighter.

Except you, right Lucy?

[lucidmist]

knuckles, yeah, there's no such thing as an unbeatable or invincible fighter. everyone is bound to make mistakes at some point, and if the opponent happens to see the opportunity and can be quick enough to take it, that could be (not definitely) the fight-stopping blow.

[lucidmist]

Absolutely. Don't be so scary, Lucy.

Aw.. sorry i scared you jubachicken. Just be a good little girl and it won't happen again.

And I see nothing wrong with that. .

Erm, no I see nothing wrong with it either sir, you know bearing in mind its what I do. I'm a little confused as to the gist of your post?

[Knuckles&Knees]

OK sir, very short version:

Many people feel that JKD is the physical art that Bruce Lee taught, therefore they just say that they train in JKD. Guro Inosanto's view is that the physical art taught during his era of study was Jun Fan Gung Fu, and that JKD was Bruce Lee's personal philosophy and expression of the martial arts. Therefore, Guro has always maintained that you can't "do" JKD, because you aren't Bruce Lee, but you can apply the "concepts" of what he taught to your personal martial arts journey.

Therefore, when people say they do JKD "Concepts", they typically crosstrain in a range of arts (Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali, Thai, BJJ etc) but they approach the study of these arts according to the "concepts" of JKD.

That is as short as I can make it.

And I see nothing wrong with that. Granted I'm a very much a novice or beginner in "JKD" but I've been impressed by much of what I've seen. The drawback is that because of crosstraining it can really take several years to build up and all-around base (standing, grappling, weapons). But sometimes good things are worth waiting for I guess.

I have some novice experience in western boxing as well. I have much respect for boxers. However, not all boxing gyms are necessarily "equal" nor boxing coaches. And not all boxers can beat up every guy that has never really fought before.

Personally - and this is just my opinion - but I think the vaunted "street fighter" is more over-hyped than anyone. I've been in some fights in my life before I ever had any western boxing training or learned any Muay Thai kicks, but *I know* I'm a more capable fighter now than I was then. Nonetheless, I suspect I'm not likely to do well against a 300 pound college football player in a very confined area - even if that 300 pound man has never been in a fist fight in his life.

Hit the right way just about anyone can get knocked down or knocked out by anyone - be they Bruce Lee, pro boxers, or UFC champions. I really believe that.

So, I ask myself, what makes a functionally illiterate 16 year old bully, more a "fighter" than Bruce Lee? (who by the way could bounce like a boxer) But the 16 year old or 13 year old girl can claim the vaunted title "street fighter" if they throw one punch or a series of windmill punches at a person equal or less equal to them in fighting.

Bruce Lee probably couldn't beat every MMA artist today (some I got a feeling he could - Bruce Lee had a very intuitive knowledge about his own body, how to move it and so forth). But he brought a very revolutionary approach to thinking about martial arts training. How many MMA fighters or boxers could Emmanuel Steward personally beat in a fight today? Yet his Kronks gym carried a good reputation.

[jubaji]

great, then the effect was right.

Absolutely. Don't be so scary, Lucy.

[lucidmist]

yeah.. untrained people can be very tough to handle. it's easier said than done when it comes to handling big people who tend to rush and grab and grip and pull and tug - especially in close quarters when taking you by surprise. yep, anyone can be beaten.

[Happy Cat]

Most of us have seen what Sifu Bruce and/or Sifu James's students and the second generation students can do. That should be enough to convince us that the founders of JKD had some powerful mojo.

Was Bruce one of the best fighters in the history of the world? I think so. Could he beat this guy or that guy? Any one can be beaten. A great martial artist could get into a bar fight and lose to someone who has never trained. Even Bruce was not invincible. But I would put my money on Bruce every time.

I know from watching my instructors, all Bruce would need to win was to touch you once. And with his speed and single minded determination, how are you going to stop that? That boy was a 138 LBS coiled spring, both phisicaly and mentaly.

[lucidmist]

yeah, and i do agree many abuse the name of bruce lee and jkd. but that's separate from his fighting ability.

anyway, many instructors around have never had a documented fight, yet we're sure of their ability to. but either way, it's your view, and i just have a different one.
yep, that's life.

[Ghost]

oh i definately think that some of the guys that are reffered to as masters are fakes, im sure of it.
anyway ive said all im going to say now i think, ive made my view hopefully clear enough. im not impressed with people fighting on film sets and rumours and accounts from friends in terms of fights that never appeared on film. if i were him i would have made the biggest effort possible to appear on film.
anyway this is done i think, we disagree, such is life, more important things in the world than this.

[lucidmist]

wasnt suggesting they dont know what they are doing, i actually said all this before, you dont have to have competed to be a good instructor.
You cant claim to be a good fighter if you have never fought and you cant claim someone else is a good fighter if you have never seen them fight.

i think its a huge leap to suggest someone is a good fighter based on them knowing what they are doing technically.
The make up of a good fighter is different and you dont know how someone will react in combat untill they are they, you can only guess.
Avoiding the camera but stating one is great is a warning sign to me.
If i was bruce i would have had all these fights recorded so this would never be questioned.
So i cant agree that he is good based on movie roles and athletic demonstrations and good technique. fighting requires different attributes but includes athletic ability and good technique.
If you want to say bruce had excellent technique i will agree with you, and if you want to say he was a phenomenal athlete/martial practitioner i will agree with you. i draw the line at saying he was a great figher because we dont know that.
sorry i know its a clinical way of dissecting it but thats me.

hmm. if you read your rant again, it definitely said many things about masters being fakes and not doing anything real. but whatever, forget it. i'm sure we're capable of discussing like adults.

anyway, i never once said bruce was the best, or that he could beat the whole world. read my post. i said i believed he COULD fight, not "i believe bruce could beat ANYONE". big difference man. and no, why would he constantly want someone or himself to lug a camera around in case there was a fight? when i was much younger, i got into street fights all the time, and never once was there any other thought in my head EXCEPT to wait and react! in the heat of the moment, whether challenged or sudden attack, look, no one's gonna have the frame of mind to tell the other party, "hey hold up a sec while i set up my video-camera, i wanna film this down". that's why a huge majority of video-taped fights on youtube, at least the supposed unplanned and spontaneous fights, are bogus. not all, but many. most of the real fights that are filmed are planned contests. and i did not base my view on his movie roles. since when? i mentioned the actual fights he had while on the set/street that people witnessed and gave accounts of. i only talked about the hard kicks or punches he gave while acting to illustrate that he had power, because witnesses and the "victims" gave their own accounts. not to illustrate his fighting ability. if you think those were staged and false (i repeat again, NOT the movie sequences, the actual off-movie fights, on the set or street), then like i said, you're entitled to your view, and that's fine.

look. i didn't do it out of "hero worship". i totally respect the man for what he's done, and just felt that it wasn't justifiable the way everyone was calling him a fake, based on nothing. just random name-calling and insults. so i gave my view on it, that's all. i'm not someone with bruce's posters on my wall, his t-shirt and collectibles. that's totally freaky. like, i see him as a martial artist who passed away young. to look at him like a toy figure and keep him on a shelf just feels totally wrong and disrespectful to a master, in my opinion. worse are those companies trying to cash in on him by ridiculing him with bigheaded and small-figured action figures. but of course, not slamming people who keep bruce's stuff. everyone leads a different kind of life and train of thought.

to me, if many of the masters vouched for bruce's fighting ability, and since many of them aren't any fakes, i'm taking their word for it. you have your view, i have mine.

thanks for the discussion.

[lucidmist]

Hey c'mon, stop it you're scaring me....

great, then the effect was right.

[jubaji]

jubajizzabel, somehow it's gotta involve your big mouth from your empty brain, if you ain't happy with me, let's meet up. we can talk like men, and you can put a stop to me for "real", instead of constant childish internet antics. besides, the street is a better teacher than the ring. kid..

Hey c'mon, stop it you're scaring me....

[Ghost]

wasnt suggesting they dont know what they are doing, i actually said all this before, you dont have to have competed to be a good instructor.
You cant claim to be a good fighter if you have never fought and you cant claim someone else is a good fighter if you have never seen them fight.

i think its a huge leap to suggest someone is a good fighter based on them knowing what they are doing technically.
The make up of a good fighter is different and you dont know how someone will react in combat untill they are they, you can only guess.
Avoiding the camera but stating one is great is a warning sign to me.
If i was bruce i would have had all these fights recorded so this would never be questioned.
So i cant agree that he is good based on movie roles and athletic demonstrations and good technique. fighting requires different attributes but includes athletic ability and good technique.
If you want to say bruce had excellent technique i will agree with you, and if you want to say he was a phenomenal athlete/martial practitioner i will agree with you. i draw the line at saying he was a great figher because we dont know that.
sorry i know its a clinical way of dissecting it but thats me.