To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

[Knuckles&Knees]

most (not all) street punks tend to shove and take full swings, which is why there's plenty of time to evade and react. however, the part about street fighters leaning back, did you mean when they initiate punches, or when someone's thrown a punch at them? i know some people tend to lean a little backwards when shifting sideways to dodge a punch while simultaneously throwing a punch back, but that can be effective too when the other party has leaned forward while punching.. unless you're talking about leaning back when initiating punches, then yeah, they're afraid to get hit.

Yeah, I was speaking of when many of them initiate punches.

When these Latino guys first start throwing punches they seem to be leaned back to some degree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlDvPtj2Nwg

Wild fighting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp20nG8mCeI

These first two young teens throwing blows epitomizes what I'm talking about as to people leaning backwards when they punch. I don't look at videos like this for entertainment but I do show my young nephews videos such as this one as learning tools as *not what to do*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBMGN-32QjM



Compare those undisciplined sights to this.

Now videos of adult men, who are learned or training in the arts of combat, and have disciplined fighting styles, I can watch for both entertainment and educational purposes. (so long as it is not geared toward permanently harming someone) The second fight is good, both men have done some training in a fighting art you can tell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBMGN-32QjM

baggy pants hanging halfway down butts? total trip hazard + kick-hindrance.

I agree.

[Tom Yum]

You can do the lapel choke while standing up as well, face to face, from the side or from the rear.

If you've got your grips and your opponent is strong enough to remove your hands from the choke but not break your grip, you can sneak a strike in at the chin with the elbow (or throat w/forearm) while you are still gripping his lapel. This will allow you to transition to something else or make a second attempt.

As soon as you sink the choke in from a stand-up side or rear, a stomp behind the knee will put him down - keeping hold of one of the lapels, you can transition into the rear naked choke.

From the front, a simultaneous but on the shoulders (friendly version) and leg reap will put him down.

[Knuckles&Knees]

Its a lapel choke, bro. You can choke using the lapel standing face to face with your opponent, beside or behind. The direction you do it changes whether you are strangulating (cutting off the circulation), choking (preventing blood flow) or both.

Thanks. I know I and another beginner were shown two different types of chokes to do while positioned in our "guard."

This one: where I would grab high up on the guys left lapel (or in the back part of the lapel and twist it around) with my right hand (I'm right handed), and then grab on his lower left lapel with my left hand underneath my right forearm, and then pull my left hand toward me while pull my right hand toward the guys throat and also toward my right side going away from me. This is the choke I liked and the one I'm talking about. Unfortunately every time I've tried to apply it while "rolling" in BJJ class I have never gotten it to work - mainly because the other students are better than me.

I've applied it well on my friend I spoke of, with his jacket. I also have applied it well on one of my brothers with his collared buttoned shirt he wore (he thought that technique was awesome too!). In both cases however they allowed me to apply the move and were not resisting.

You say you can choke with the lapel while positioned to your opponent's side or back? In other words, any direction I face you I'm in danger. I look forward to learning those moves eventually.

I think there's more to self-protection than just a fighting art though.

I'm sure you're right on this.

[jubaji]

Hmmm...that one wasn't scary so much as just shit-all stupid. Try again, Lucy.

[Tom Yum]

Lucid Mist, do you study JKD?

I think one of your previous posts mentions your study of taiji. Don't know much about the system, except that it looks like aikido and is known for generating power from strong rooting rather than muscular exertion.

[lucidmist]

Oh I know! But even hiding at home I'm scared by your intimidating demeanor, Lucy.

oops! so sorry girl, perhaps you should turn off your computer, or just stop reading my posts. but i can see you're so afraid of being ignored or forgotten, that you have to post anyway, just to up your post counts and get attention regardless of how redundant your comments are!

[lucidmist]

In all honesty I've seen plenty fights go to the ground but *most* I've seen have begun and ended with at least one (if not both) opponents standing.

Many years ago, when I was in high school, I ended up on the ground, but to my knowledge I was the only one and it happened by me being knocked out for a few seconds. I was surrounded and jumped by a gang (a literal affiliated gang), under night condition with all street lights on the block blacked-out. When my homies on the bus stop came running the gang members ran off.

I'm a true believer in the practicality of BJJ or other good grappling arts though. I was just showing my homie (a very good friend), who is a hardcore street fighter all the way into his 30's, a strangulation by clothing collar (I believe it's referred to as a "blood choke"), the other day. He loved it! Though... I don't think he knows how to apply it yet. If (key word *if*) I can apply it correctly on say a resisting, aggressive, 300 lbs man who lets say is wearing a leather jacket partially zipped up; I'll hold on for dear life, clamp that hold down, and put that joker unconscious in short time. There ends that fight for the moment.

But, my personal belief, at least the style of fighting I've come up with, is one that places emphasis on striking ability. I personally believe in striking - the ability to be a good striker (first and foremost with your hands). That's just my own personal belief.

If a person can strike well and with power with their hands, feet, and knees they are very dangerous on the "streets."

Most so called street fighters lean back when they throw a blow (plus they tend to throw wild and wide). The reason they lean back - no matter how much aggression and hatred they fight with - is because they *do not want to get hit.* Essentially they *fear a punch or punches hitting them.* And please don't add the culture of people wearing baggy pants hanging half way down their butts - you can't fight well like that (not against me you can't).

thanks for sharing.. choking works, unfortunately, i only know how to apply primitive methods (never had training in those areas). normally i just give it all i have and really thank the Lord nobody has blindsided or stabbed me.

most (not all) street punks tend to shove and take full swings, which is why there's plenty of time to evade and react. however, the part about street fighters leaning back, did you mean when they initiate punches, or when someone's thrown a punch at them? i know some people tend to lean a little backwards when shifting sideways to dodge a punch while simultaneously throwing a punch back, but that can be effective too when the other party has leaned forward while punching.. unless you're talking about leaning back when initiating punches, then yeah, they're afraid to get hit.

baggy pants hanging halfway down butts? total trip hazard + kick-hindrance.

[Tom Yum]

I'm a true believer in the practicality of BJJ or other good grappling arts though. I was just showing my homie (a very good friend), who is a hardcore street fighter all the way into his 30's, a strangulation by clothing collar (I believe it's referred to as a "blood choke"), the other day. He loved it! Though... I don't think he knows how to apply it yet. If (key word *if*) I can apply it correctly on say a resisting, aggressive, 300 lbs man who lets say is wearing a leather jacket partially zipped up; I'll hold on for dear life, clamp that hold down, and put that joker unconscious in short time. There ends that fight for the moment.

Its a lapel choke, bro. You can choke using the lapel standing face to face with your opponent, beside or behind. The direction you do it changes whether you are strangulating (cutting off the circulation), choking (preventing blood flow) or both.

But, my personal belief, at least the style of fighting I've come up with, is one that places emphasis on striking ability. I personally believe in striking - the ability to be a good striker (first and foremost with your hands). That's just my own personal belief.

If a person can strike well and with power with their hands, feet, and knees they are very dangerous on the "streets."

Most so called street fighters lean back when they throw a blow (plus they tend to throw wild and wide). The reason they lean back - no matter how much aggression and hatred they fight with - is because they *do not want to get hit.* Essentially they *fear a punch or punches hitting them.* And please don't add the culture of people wearing baggy pants hanging half way down their butts - you can't fight well like that (not against me you can't).

Exactly the reasons why I love muaythai . I think there's more to self-protection than just a fighting art though.

[jubaji]

sigh, so easily spooked, but making the most juvenile noise. yep, you made the right decision hiding at home, sonny!

Oh I know! But even hiding at home I'm scared by your intimidating demeanor, Lucy.

[Knuckles&Knees]

...but just a quick question.. in most of the people's experiences here, does groundfighting happen alot? i mean based on non-ring fights. so far, i've only ever encountered one messy groundfight...

...so.. bjj, is it practical? not slamming, just a question cos i'm really inexperienced in that area.

In all honesty I've seen plenty fights go to the ground but *most* I've seen have begun and ended with at least one (if not both) opponents standing.

Many years ago, when I was in high school, I ended up on the ground, but to my knowledge I was the only one and it happened by me being knocked out for a few seconds. I was surrounded and jumped by a gang (a literal affiliated gang), under night condition with all street lights on the block blacked-out. When my homies on the bus stop came running the gang members ran off.

I'm a true believer in the practicality of BJJ or other good grappling arts though. I was just showing my homie (a very good friend), who is a hardcore street fighter all the way into his 30's, a strangulation by clothing collar (I believe it's referred to as a "blood choke"), the other day. He loved it! Though... I don't think he knows how to apply it yet. If (key word *if*) I can apply it correctly on say a resisting, aggressive, 300 lbs man who lets say is wearing a leather jacket partially zipped up; I'll hold on for dear life, clamp that hold down, and put that joker unconscious in short time. There ends that fight for the moment.

But, my personal belief, at least the style of fighting I've come up with, is one that places emphasis on striking ability. I personally believe in striking - the ability to be a good striker (first and foremost with your hands). That's just my own personal belief.

If a person can strike well and with power with their hands, feet, and knees they are very dangerous on the "streets."

Most so called street fighters lean back when they throw a blow (plus they tend to throw wild and wide). The reason they lean back - no matter how much aggression and hatred they fight with - is because they *do not want to get hit.* Essentially they *fear a punch or punches hitting them.* And please don't add the culture of people wearing baggy pants hanging half way down their butts - you can't fight well like that (not against me you can't).

[lucidmist]

"sliced"? Oh man, that's even scarier than before!

sigh, so easily spooked, but making the most juvenile noise. yep, you made the right decision hiding at home, sonny!

[lucidmist]

THis is the problem when you get a larger than life character. in any industry.
If you ask people who was the biggest body builder of all time most people will say arnie, when he wouldnt even make it onto the stage at mr olympia compared to todays guys.
Their characters carry them a long, long way, and not really in any bad way usually, but can be misleading.

arnie wouldn't? you mean based on his size over the last few years, or back when during his days as mr. olympia?

[lucidmist]

Yep!

And it's happened more than once in professional boxing where a boxer underestimated his "no named" opponent and got his clock cleaned. No matter how many fights you compile on your record, the potential still exists, some unrecognized guy, perhaps with a lot less fights than you, could come along a stop your parade.

Before some dude named Buster Douglas... Iron Mike Tyson was suppose to be invincible.

You can say this much about Bruce Lee, not only was his power phenomenal, but he stayed in better condition than many amateur or pro boxers. Which in my mind tells me, he was prepared for combat throughout more calendar days of the year than many boxers.

But Bruce never seemed to have acquired the skills associated with a BJJ practitioner or the particular rear leg kick of the Thai fighter, so the lack of those things could and I think would, be major weaknesses for him fighting against any well trained MMA person today.

This does not mean per se that Bruce would automatically lose against any well trained MMA person today in an ally fight. I don't think Bruce would have any objection to kicking his attacker in the knee (breaking the leg) or kicking his ally attacker in the groin with the power of a Mike Tyson upper cut or Babe Ruth at the batting plate. Lights out Billy! Lol.

yes.. i would say physically, bruce was ready for plenty.. be it speedwise, power, or reflexes.. and yeah, everyone has his or her own weaknesses... but just a quick question.. in most of the people's experiences here, does groundfighting happen alot? i mean based on non-ring fights. so far, i've only ever encountered one messy groundfight, and it happened slightly after the rain, and the ground was completely slippery so somehow during the tussle we ended up on the ground. and i don't know how it would've ended cos it happened right outside a building, and the security guards enjoyed ten minutes of the "show" before deciding to pull us apart, largely because they had to when the manager suddenly appeared. so.. bjj, is it practical? not slamming, just a question cos i'm really inexperienced in that area.

[lucidmist]

see that kind of illustrates the point.
Wong's status was pretty high in the community but you questioned what he wrote, rightly so in my opinion.
We know that fight went on for ages, some people state 20 minutes some 10.
it wasnt a quick finish and by some accounts of people he beat bruce but bruce wouldnt give in, wong refused to hurt him badly and so on blah blah.

Not everyone is telling the same story.....which leads to my point on loyalties

If you look at bruce lee and those around him you will find the bruce lee side of things and vice versa. this is why i question, in the same way you question Wong's side of things. I question everything and if i dont see concrete proof i think hang on, we really dont know what the case is, so i wont personally state it as a fact or an assumption.

ghost, i totally get where you're coming from. but remember, i question the fight between wong jack man and bruce lee, but i do not question that both of them can fight. i'm not saying godlike fighting prowess or invincibility, but either way, i'm not dismissing them both as fighters just because of the lack of footage or competitions.

but like i said, i get what you're saying.

[jubaji]

it's ok, just stick to layin' eggs like the good hen that you are and you won't get sliced!

"sliced"? Oh man, that's even scarier than before!