To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

[Vader]

You are wrong, he was defeated multiple times, and won a couple of times.

Gene Lebell was the most obvious person to beat him, but that was only because he easily crushed him.

Norris, because he's a nice, humble guy, claims Lee wupped him ass, but people around at the time say that Norris didn't have much trouble with Lee, and was holding back.

Check yoself fo' you speak son.

J Luck,

Do you have any proof that Gene Lebell or Chuck Norris beat Bruce in a fight. If you do could you please post it.

Vader.

[J-Luck]

J Luck,

Do you have any proof that Gene Lebell or Chuck Norris beat Bruce in a fight. If you do could you please post it.

Vader.

I don't remember where I read that.

The Lebell thing is well known, all you'd have to do is search it on google. Lee actually trained under Lebell for this reason. It makes sense though, why wouldn't a high level Judoka wup a kung fu guy?

The Norris thing was because they filmed some movie together. I'm not sure which one, but it was supposedly famous. They sparred off set, and the people there say Norris looked calm and in control the whole time.

[lucidmist]

Yes, Ali had been in multiple street fights. He grew up in a poor, bad neighborhood. Not innercity, but ghetto none the less.

Size will always gain you an advantage. ALWAYS. Akebono was grossly out of shape, and I don't think anyone would ever consider him a high caliber fighter, outside of his sport. Way to compare two unlike people(Ali, Akebono).

Lee only STARTED to learn any grappling after Lebell moped him. He wouldn't have been able to do much to Ali on the ground, Ali probably would be more likely to choke him due to size, strength, and athletic advantage.


You can't 100% predict what will happen in a street fight, but you can within reason. I am wayyy more comfortable in a street conflict than in MMA. I grew up ina bad area, chilled with the wrong people, and did the wrong things for a while. I can almost predict how a confrontation is going to go everytime. And I can usually dictate and control the situation with my behavior. Not so in MMA.

Anyways, Merry Christmas!

Yo man, I agree that size definitely does have its advantages. But I have been in many situations (non-sparring) where I did maneuver faster than my opponent (who was much bigger than me) to attack him with ease. I have to admit, I "cheated". I distracted him with my movements and deliberately made my rhythms inconsistent. but I did beat him. It wasn't anything graceful, and I guess since I "cheated" (no I didn't gouge an eye out, but in a close struggle, I literally dug my nails into his face and pressed deeper and dragged). it wasn't an honourable win as many would say. I don't remember the other details, and I can't really recall how he tried to hurt me back. I had scratches, my shirt was torn, but I don't remember how I got all those. And I have to admit, it took alot more than a few punches to make him submit, and if he lasted, my stamina would've given up in time. But he beat my cousin up over a stupid thing and I was PISSED, I literally wanted to kill him. The funny thing was, my cousin knew about this guy (a MMA guy) sometime back, and we were supposed to spar, not have a real fight. But in the end, we got the actual thing. And no, I didn't beat everyone I fought, but many that I did beat were bigger guys than me. It is possible! But it was waay different when I was beaten by a bigger guy. I felt helpless, totally pinned and unable to move. Whereas when it was the other way round, the guy bigger than me still had grounds to struggle. So my point is, it really boils down to who gains the upper hand first, or who would be the faster one to drop the honourable guise and play dirty first, beyond the punches and kicks.

as for norris and bruce, I don't know much about their so-called sparring session. but as with ali and bruce, whoever is a fan of whoever will spout supportive comments in favor of his champ. but just by observation, i've seen norris execute punches and kicks. fast nonetheless, but nowhere near the speed of bruce. also, i've seen some books of norris. he seems to have ripped stuff from bruce. after he met bruce, he wasn't purely karate anymore. just an opinion, i'm not sure.

we will never agree, that I'm sure of it. but just as Bruce wasn't proven in the ring, Ali wasn't proven on the street. many may think being proven in the ring is sufficient. but after having seen so many freeze up outside the ring, i have my doubts. not all, but enough to convince me that being toughest in the ring means nothing.

and finally, one non-alcoholic Christmas for me.

[Vader]

I don't remember where I read that.

The Lebell thing is well known, all you'd have to do is search it on google. Lee actually trained under Lebell for this reason. It makes sense though, why wouldn't a high level Judoka wup a kung fu guy?

The Norris thing was because they filmed some movie together. I'm not sure which one, but it was supposedly famous. They sparred off set, and the people there say Norris looked calm and in control the whole time.

***
Gene Lebelle was one of the few people, Bruce accepted as a teacher. Bruce Learnt Judo from Gene.

Bruce asked Chuck to be in one of his movies - Way of the dragon. Chuck was one of Bruces friends in real life and both had respect for each other. Bruce was Chuck Norris Teacher. Bruce never fought Chuck for 2 reasons.

1) He was his martial arts teacher.
2) Bruce didn't believe in tournament competitions and never competed in them.

He did however spar with Chuck.


Vader.

[jubaji]

just as Bruce wasn't proven in the ring, Ali wasn't proven on the street.

Let's see, the proof of what Ali did in the ring is pretty easy to find. How about the 'proof' of Lee doing anything in 'da street'?

[lucidmist]

Let's see, the proof of what Ali did in the ring is pretty easy to find. How about the 'proof' of Lee doing anything in 'da street'?

since when was there a "da street"?

the sources for interviews, books, etc, would be enough - for me. however, i've got more verbal confirmation, which is good enough for me, too. my jkd master who learnt from another jkd master (an actual student of bruce's) asked this master if bruce was a good fighter, and the answer was yes. not the best, but he was good. and it wasn't just from this jkd master, another prominent grandmaster of hap ki do in korea said the same thing. i cannot mention names due to the crazy politics that i don't want to get involved in, but i don't expect you guys to agree, believe or accept whatever i say. i believe what i've heard and read. there're way too many sources to ignore. how many of us learnt from masters who never had footages of their fights but we believe they were good? if there was a videocam being toted around, then that wouldn't be a street fight! it would be a staged fight!

we all have different opinions on this. you're welcome to believe in yours. i believe in mine. haven't we all fought the same guys that we had a tough time with during sparring but beat fairly easily in an actual fight cos we got really pissed and aggressive? after you've met many people and sparred and fought many different people, you've understood that in many circumstances, things don't work in a definite way when it involves human emotion and psychology, under different circumstances. and like i said, i've seen many, not all, but enough ring fighters freeze in off-ring confrontations to understand that being tough in the ring doesn't necessarily mean being tough outside the ring.

[jubaji]

my jkd master who learnt from another jkd master (an actual student of bruce's) asked this master if bruce was a good fighter, and the answer was yes. not the best, but he was good. and it wasn't just from this jkd master, another prominent grandmaster of hap ki do in korea said the same thing. i cannot mention names due to the crazy politics that i don't want to get involved in.

LOL!!!!! That is too funny! Could you pack more cliched BS into one paragraph? LOL! Read that out loud to yourself and tell me you don't laugh!

haven't we all fought the same guys that we had a tough time with during sparring but beat fairly easily in an actual fight cos we got really pissed and aggressive? .

NO. You, him, or both of you were either slacking in practice or just stink.

[g-bells]

You can't 100% predict what will happen in a street fight, but you can within reason. I am wayyy more comfortable in a street conflict than in MMA. I grew up ina bad area, chilled with the wrong people, and did the wrong things for a while. I can almost predict how a confrontation is going to go everytime. And I can usually dictate and control the situation with my behavior. Not so in MMA.

Are you serious? your more comfortable in a street encounter than in a ring/cage?
either your lying or you are truly messed up!!!!

[lucidmist]

LOL!!!!! That is too funny! Could you pack more cliched BS into one paragraph? LOL! Read that out loud to yourself and tell me you don't laugh!

NO. You, him, or both of you were either slacking in practice or just stink.

BS? Hahaha! Nevermind man. After all, I did say that what you believe or not is up to you.

And it's sad that your lack of actual fight experience has limited your mind. Or maybe you just lack the ability, and having failed to attain further progress, you slam everyone else as fake and everything else as unfathomable - just because you couldn't do it. i guarantee you there are people who have fought guys bigger than them and beat them. not all, but enough to prove it isn't impossible. if you haven't, then that's sad. but even if you had, youd say no just to oppose my point. already, my own family line has done it a thousand times. from my Grandpa, who was an ex gangleader, when gangs still believed on SOME occasions to have honorable one-on-ones, to my Godpa (ex boxer), to my uncles, and myself. heck, even when my Grandpa was in his 50s, he was still beating up guys bigger than him when they came to our house to kick up trouble! My home was a constant ground for fights cos of our family history, and it wasn't easy not to get dragged in after awhile!

You can call it all BS. Your loss dude. I don't know if we'll ever meet. But until then, you can think what you want.

Whatever it is, Bruce Lee was no superman, or unbeatable champion - as with anyone. But he doesn't deserve to be called a "Fake" by anyone who hasn't even achieved half of what he had, and still is achieving even when dead - and that is inspiring people - which is the best thing that any martial artist or teacher can do for anyone.

[lucidmist]

Bruce Lee zombie versus White Zombie...who would win?

Bruce Lee's Zombie versus Lucio Fulci's Zombi II: Zombie Flesh Eaters, who would win?

Rob Zombie produced House of Thousand Corpses. Twisted bastard like that can't be beaten by anyone.

As for regular zombies.. if Lara Croft could do it, Tang Long from Way of Dragon can do it. Angelina Jolie and Bruce Lee - no way. (unless zombies still had a sex drive)

[jubaji]

I did say that what you believe or not is up to you.

Yes, thank you. I have chosen to exercise the permission you so generously gave me.

And it's sad that your lack of actual fight experience has limited your mind.

*Bzzzzt!* Wrong! Try again.

Or maybe you just lack the ability, and having failed to attain further progress

*Bzzzzt!* Wrong! Try again.

i guarantee you there are people who have fought guys bigger than them and beat them.

Great. I don't recall denying that.

from my Grandpa, who was an ex gangleader, when gangs still believed on SOME occasions to have honorable one-on-ones, to my Godpa (ex boxer), to my uncles, and myself. heck, even when my Grandpa was in his 50s, he was still beating up guys bigger than him when they came to our house to kick up trouble! My home was a constant ground for fights cos of our family history, and it wasn't easy not to get dragged in after awhile!

LOL!!! Its always about this time that the personal anecdotes start ramping up, but the bit about grandpa the gangleader was a nice touch.

You can call it all BS. Your loss dude.

Thanks again for the permission.

I don't know if we'll ever meet. But until then, you can think what you want.

LOL!!! And with the implied threat he completes the entire set of BS posting! Congratulations!

[fire cobra]

Why not leave the last words to Bruce Lee on this when he said..."If you ask me if im good and i say i am, you will say im boasting...however if you ask me if im good and i say im not you will know im lying".

[jubaji]

I think you could have gone with a better 'top' than Angelina Jolie to make your joke...

[DickHardman]

You don't like Angelina? Jesus H. Christ, maybe Dickhead is right about you.

i was right. the story about jubaji suffering a debilitating, life altering neck injury due to over exerting himself while he was having himself to his favorite matt blake pics was true bro. and i can prove it. statistically 1 in 3 people injure themselves during masturbation at one point or another. its never happened to me, and garland you probably dont masturbate at all cause you are emotionally disturbed, confused about your sexuality, hopped up on prozac, and ready to open fire on the victims on your list with the weapons you pose with in pictures on the internet. so that only leaves jubaji.

see i know what im talking about. if you ignore the advice of incompetent teachers who want to force you to waste your time and youth studying useless bullshit that only they care about, you too may be able to develop a sharp mind and rapier wit, with lats and pecs to match.

[]D[][]\/[][]D

[jubaji]

gotta go BIG for the joke

You don't like Angelina?

Don't get me wrong, she's got a fine top, middle, and bottom, but your joke would have worked better with a more 'dramatic' top like Salma Hyek or Scarlet Johansson or the like.