Anyone Practiced This Defense?

[Ghost]

But what about how Quinton Jackson uses it?

Did you spot the glaringly obvious and wonderful opening that jackson missed there.
Could have ended the fight but he missed it cos he was covering.
Not to take anything away from UFC fighters but 99% of them cant punch for shit and wouldnt last 1 round in a boxing match.

The standard of stand up fighting in UFC is vastly inferior to that in of other systems, on the whole though not across the board of course.
Isolating that clip a reasonable boxer would have taken that left hook opportunity jackson had and used it to good effect.

Like i was saying before, it works ok if you are in a cant cope situation. Which is what jackson was in here, eyes closed, going through the motions no counter punches.

The no1 sign that a boxer is in control of his defense is that he can counter punch off it.
I know this is UFC but the point still stands. If you are defending and can counter you are in control, if you cant counter you are out of control.


Having said that, like i said before, it has its time and place, ie when you cant block due to being overwhelmed and this is how jackson used it here and it worked for him. It worked in the sense that he didnt get hit.
It failed also because he missed the opening, thats the whole point me and mike are making i think.

[Ghost]

Just seems to me a great set up to start throwing kicks. There hands are engaged, you are covering, and the opening for the kicks are so glaringly in your face, it seems a shame to waste the opportunity to break their fliurry with a strong kick create an opening and then switch to hands. Also a dang good way not to stand their being so defensive.


I understand the idea of punching out of it, I just wonder in the clip above why you'd waste the effort when you hands are out of position because of crazy monkey, but you still have striking tools available.

You could.
However, when people are punching, as you well know, they leave openings to their head, thats the nature of punching, you can cover up as well as you like but punching leaves openings.

THough kick counter is an option, if you are looking for a kick you arent seeing the best shot, usually.
The best shot here is the opening where jackson can throw a left hook and the guys chin is completely open. Thats the best counter here.

Its just a question of whats the best counter at any moment. Ideally its a shot to the head and punches allow that more than kicks. You could kick counter and that would be fine IMO but youd have missed that lovely open jaw that you could have punched.

Punching out is better than kick counter most of the time but not always.

Kick counter works better when your opponent likes to punch alot but you are in control of their attacks, a nice parry followed by a low kick. IF you have control over their attack consistently then you can use kick counters to nice effect. Thats the best place for kick counters. IMO.

[Motion]

Ghost,

Who are some mma fighters you've seen who handle punches the way you'd like to see more of?

[Ghost]

Mirko Crocop

THough generally the standard of punching in MMA is very low in comparison to boxing, but thats to be expected.

[Joe Hubbard]

The truth is that there are a variety of stances, guards and concepts. The Crazy Monkey defensive posture really has been around for years, it’s just young people have “missed the boat” so to speak, when they first came around in history. Mark Hatmaker and Jim McCann will tell you that in old school pugilistic boxing the same defensive posture was called the Stone Wall Defence which is not dissimilar to Tyson’s Peekaboo Guard.

It’s tough to make a name for yourself in this day and age within the fighting arts because so much has been done before. A trick that many use is taking a technique that has been around for years, come up with your own name for it, trade mark it and claim that you invented it. Young people who are first experiencing martial arts buy into this hype and for a time actually believe what these people are espousing. I once posted on another forum that I had created a new system called F.R.A.M.E. (Forearm Reinforcement for Maximum Efficiency) as a joke. Oddly, many took me seriously and I was inundated with e-mails about this.

I would like to add that this is not meant as disrespect to Rodney King who I regard as a highly skilled boxer. But I do scratch my head wondering what the hell a “non-attribute system” really means. It gives me the impression that you do not have to possess any physical skill set; I find this odd coming from a guy who is teaching a sport based art where physical attributes is what determines who wins or loses in a competition match.

Out

Joe

[Motion]

I read an article on the crazy monkey and it mentioned that the reason the body positioning is more squared is to allow the fighter to either shoot in for a takedown or to be in a better postion to sprawl or defend a takedown. So there is an offensive and more of a defensive element to this technique.

Also I see where some are comparing the punching of mma fighters to that of boxers. Boxers and mma fighters have different focuses which influences how they use punching. Boxers are mainly focused on punching only but mma fighters are punching with the focuse also being on clinches,takedowns and kicks. Boxers are using punches knowing that no clinches,takedowns or kicks will be a factor but mma fighters are punching with those things being a factor so mma fighters may have to develop a different approach to punching than what you'll see from boxers.

[Guest]

For me, here's the bottom line:

For every one fight, be that Boxing/MMA/Thai, where you may see a concept like crazy monkey being used, there will be 1,000 other fights where it isn't used and guys are knocked out with a good left hook counter. There is a reason in this arena why people train the way they do, because it works day in day out all around the world.

Thats the beauty of combative sports, you can throw all the marketing in the world at your concepts and buzz words, in the end people will pay attention to just one thing - what puts the guy on the canvas.

[OldSchool CO]

The progression in question is how we approach what is referred to as the heirarchy of combat sports (ranked least favorable to most favorable):

1. Getting hit
2. Blocking
3. Blocking with a hitting answer following the block
4. Offensive hitting
5. Counter-offensive hitting

For the untrained or "seminar" trained, blocking moves them forward on the list, however if you are going to make your living at the combat sports you by God better not stop with blocking or with blocking and answering. If you do you will always be known as "the opponent" and never the "champion".

Rampage is a terrific offensive force, his counter game is still elementary as is most MMA athletes. I attribute this to the newness of the MMA game in it's current format, and also to the immense diversity the game requires. Counter-offense is much harder to train, takes more timing/reading to pull off. As the sport continues to evolve we will see better counters in the striking portion.

FYI Rampage loses the fight with Axe Murderer by being overwhelmed and Ko'ed...if you recall Tito was using the same "defensive" style when Ice Man Cameth all over him at the UFC too. Remember I said the counter game is elementary, but the MMA offense is well on in it's developmental road! Stand still and most guys will KO you with aplomb!

[OldSchool CO]

I'm sorry to offend your fragile sensabilities Brewertastic...I did not read the thread from beginning to end to realize your holiness had previously enlightened the poor humble masses on the TRUE PATH Seriously, lump whatever into whatever you hypersensitive primadonna.

[Ghost]

The progression in question is how we approach what is referred to as the heirarchy of combat sports (ranked least favorable to most favorable):

1. Getting hit
2. Blocking
3. Blocking with a hitting answer following the block
4. Offensive hitting
5. Counter-offensive hitting

For the untrained or "seminar" trained, blocking moves them forward on the list, however if you are going to make your living at the combat sports you by God better not stop with blocking or with blocking and answering. If you do you will always be known as "the opponent" and never the "champion".

Rampage is a terrific offensive force, his counter game is still elementary as is most MMA athletes. I attribute this to the newness of the MMA game in it's current format, and also to the immense diversity the game requires. Counter-offense is much harder to train, takes more timing/reading to pull off. As the sport continues to evolve we will see better counters in the striking portion.

FYI Rampage loses the fight with Axe Murderer by being overwhelmed and Ko'ed...if you recall Tito was using the same "defensive" style when Ice Man Cameth all over him at the UFC too. Remember I said the counter game is elementary, but the MMA offense is well on in it's developmental road! Stand still and most guys will KO you with aplomb!

Good post, other than the list, i really dont like these lists, they state the obvious, what it boils down to with these lists is that you should try to hit them and not let them hit you.
Im not really sure what else is to be gained from them, but the rest of the post was good.

[Ghost]

I don't like his list because he stole the whole damned thing from me.

Trying to play it off like he didn't read my stuff...

lol fair point.

List wars!

[Razinghell]

I teach this techniques as a self defense method to my kids program. I like it because it has the element of covering and protecting yourself epsecially when you are cornered. I have my kids crazy monkey and move forward to find a safer clinch position so that they can control the strikes without striking back themselves.

[OldSchool CO]

Hey Strawberry Brewer Cake why don't you take that sensitive side of yourself and rub Vick's Vaporub all over it, dip it in gasoline and light it on fire so we can actually see the warm, humble guy we all hope you'll be. The list is actually not your's at all you friggin plagerizing sycophant, Paul Vunak has about 5 million DVD's with that unoriginal progression you lay claim to!.

I agree the list may seem a bit trite, merely trying to illustrate exactly what the end goal is: Hit more often with more effect than the other guy hits us back!


Good little beginner cover up so Master may hit you!!!

[DJColdfusion]

#1 Quinton Jackson wasn't doing Crazy Monkey. He was covering up.

#2 the clip that started the thread is just a short part of a seminar DVD that I personally enjoyed. Its no where near the best stand up instructional that I have but it is still pretty good.

#3 I may not use all that much from the DVD in my own game, however limited it may be, but there is good material there . . . and yes, I had a certain instructor in Colorado who could teach circles around Rodney King but that is a completely different story.

[OldSchool CO]

[QUOTE=Mike Brewer;292710](read: pointing out the obvious) that you were just restating what I had already posted. I apologize also that my doing it so much more eloquently than you did made your inadequacies more obvious to you. QUOTE]

You and the Clinton's must have gone to the same finishing school for eloquence you pompous plagerizing malcontent. Just because no one here will call you on your obvious lack of original material, don't get all sideways with me. First) your list is about as unique as Jessica Simpson's tits ( I got IT on Ebabe!) and B) I merely echo some of the same principles and get turned on like a 3 year old infant pulling the family Pit Bull's tail. Would you like a side of French Cries to go with your Wah Burger Mystic BrewHAh or is the use of that no plageristic enough for you?

God Bless America, I love it when a guy rips off somebody elses stuff, labels it as his original idea, then attacks another poster for "COPYING MY STUFF". Long live the overly sensitive!