jkd + distance running

[pbear]

i train in jkd and was wondering with jkd being a lot about speed would i ruin my training by doing distance running which is more aerobic than speed, any comments would be welcome please

[Tom Yum]

Would it ruin your training as a martial artist?

Mike Tyson ran 3 miles per day before beginning his boxing workout and then end the day with 30 minutes of stationary cycling. If anything, this work didn't hinder his explosive power.

Alot of muaythai training camps require their fighters to run 4-6 miles per day and sometimes swim. Increased mileage and the swim work makes sense, since muaythai fighters can throw hundreds of kicks per fight, need to be explosive for a long time and need hardened legs. Some trainers claim that running actually hardens the legs for pad work and eventually for leg sparring.

I've even heard that some military martial arts courses require their students to do distance running as part of pre-requisite conditioning.

Why do distance running? It increases your base cardio conditioning, general stamina (ability to be strong for an extended period) and keeps you trim.

Sprint work should be done as well.

[GQchris]

Lots of roadwork is excellent, but don't neglect Sprints and also Stairs.

[chillaplata]

When I was training JKD (currently taking a break but looking forward to going back soon), I felt my poor cardio was one of the biggest obstacles to my progress. Although I did improve my cardio by attending class, taking private lessons and sparring, I felt like it was never enough.

Over the past year, while I have not been training martial arts, I have tried to spend an hour or so every day in the gym doing cardio and strength training. I've worked my way up from being able to do, say, 2 miles at a 10 minute per mile pace to being able to do 5 miles at an 8 minute per mile pace. I have recently started training BJJ again and have noticed a HUGE difference in my endurance on the mat -- I still get submitted right and left, but at least the guys who are tapping me out are breathing harder and sweating more than I am!

One thing I have tried to do is to vary the speeds and distances of my runs. For example, I might run 1 mile at a 6:40 pace, do 5 minute walks as warm-ups and cool-downs, and then spend 45 minutes on the elliptical trainer (like today). Or I might run 3 miles at a 7:30 pace and then do half an hour on the elliptical trainer. I know I should incorporate sprints and interval training into my routine as others have suggested -- plan to do so soon.

Good luck with your training.

[chillaplata]

(sorry for double post)

The other thing my Sifu had me doing (to improve my generally sorry physical condition) was lots of bodyweight exercises: push-ups, crunches, squats, lunges, hip escapes, triangles, stand-ups, sprawls, pull-ups...etc...good complement to pure aerobic training such as running...

[Tim Mousel]

If the primary objective is speed and power development I am opposed to distance running based on current scientific research and results.

I realize many boxers traditionally run distances of 3-6 miles. That doesn't make it the optimal training method.

There is no need to build a cardio base through distance running. That is an old concept that is detrimental to power and speed development. An increase in cardio (VO2 Max) can be obtained through high intensity interval training. This type of training is much, much better for the speed/power athlete (fighter). It also is more effective at training the same energy systems used in a fight.

Other factors include muscle fiber training and changes associated with the stimulus applied. LSD - Long Slow Distance forces some of the Fast Twitch (Type IIa) fibers to take on certain characteristics of the Slow Twitch (Type I) fibers while high intensity training causes the opposite to occur.

Another "traditional" mistake is to do the running before the technique and speed training. It is not possible to obtain maximal speed and power when the muscles/neuromuscular system is in a fatigued state. Speed and power training should be performed when you are fresh.

Many of the world's greatest athletes use training techniques that are less than optimal. Why? Tradition. It's always been done that way. There are also exceptions to the rule. Imagine how much better these athletes/fighters would be if they trained using the latest training methods and techniques. Most would be at least somewhat better than they are now.

When I started training 2x World Boxing Champ Reggie Johnson, I changed his training regimen dramatically. There are a whole list of things he had done in his training through his early career, including the early morning distance runs. After the new program had time to take effect, he was amazed at how much harder he could hit and how much faster his punches got.

Tim

[GQchris]

Thanks Instructor Tim, I guess I just watched too many Rocky movies

[chillaplata]

I know the feeling...those sides of beef can hurt...

Anyway, thanks to Sifu Tim for his post...lots of food for thought...

[jeff5]

Listen to Tim, the man knows his stuff for sure =).

I'm not a professional fighter or anything like that, but still as a martial artist I try to focus my cardio like Tim said.

When I first started getting back into shape I did longer cardio which I think is good if you haven't worked out in awhile. (this was in 2006) But for the last year or so I've focused more on interval training, either body for life's method, tabata intervals, hill sprints, etc. I mix in longer cardio maybe once or twice a month.

I've noticed more fat loss from this type of training, as well as better "wind" when doing any of the activities associated with martial arts, which are mostly explosive, anaerobic type of activities. I also notice that my recovery time between rounds, or sprints, or whatever I'm doing, has dramatically increased.

My experience anyway.

[Tom Yum]

If the primary objective is speed and power development I am opposed to distance running based on current scientific research and results.

I realize many boxers traditionally run distances of 3-6 miles. That doesn't make it the optimal training method.

There is no need to build a cardio base through distance running. That is an old concept that is detrimental to power and speed development. An increase in cardio (VO2 Max) can be obtained through high intensity interval training. This type of training is much, much better for the speed/power athlete (fighter). It also is more effective at training the same energy systems used in a fight.

Other factors include muscle fiber training and changes associated with the stimulus applied. LSD - Long Slow Distance forces some of the Fast Twitch (Type IIa) fibers to take on certain characteristics of the Slow Twitch (Type I) fibers while high intensity training causes the opposite to occur.

Another "traditional" mistake is to do the running before the technique and speed training. It is not possible to obtain maximal speed and power when the muscles/neuromuscular system is in a fatigued state. Speed and power training should be performed when you are fresh.

Many of the world's greatest athletes use training techniques that are less than optimal. Why? Tradition. It's always been done that way. There are also exceptions to the rule. Imagine how much better these athletes/fighters would be if they trained using the latest training methods and techniques. Most would be at least somewhat better than they are now.

When I started training 2x World Boxing Champ Reggie Johnson, I changed his training regimen dramatically. There are a whole list of things he had done in his training through his early career, including the early morning distance runs. After the new program had time to take effect, he was amazed at how much harder he could hit and how much faster his punches got.

Tim

Good stuff, Tim! Thanks for clarifying.

[pbear]

If the primary objective is speed and power development I am opposed to distance running based on current scientific research and results.

I realize many boxers traditionally run distances of 3-6 miles. That doesn't make it the optimal training method.

There is no need to build a cardio base through distance running. That is an old concept that is detrimental to power and speed development. An increase in cardio (VO2 Max) can be obtained through high intensity interval training. This type of training is much, much better for the speed/power athlete (fighter). It also is more effective at training the same energy systems used in a fight.

Other factors include muscle fiber training and changes associated with the stimulus applied. LSD - Long Slow Distance forces some of the Fast Twitch (Type IIa) fibers to take on certain characteristics of the Slow Twitch (Type I) fibers while high intensity training causes the opposite to occur.

Another "traditional" mistake is to do the running before the technique and speed training. It is not possible to obtain maximal speed and power when the muscles/neuromuscular system is in a fatigued state. Speed and power training should be performed when you are fresh.

Many of the world's greatest athletes use training techniques that are less than optimal. Why? Tradition. It's always been done that way. There are also exceptions to the rule. Imagine how much better these athletes/fighters would be if they trained using the latest training methods and techniques. Most would be at least somewhat better than they are now.

When I started training 2x World Boxing Champ Reggie Johnson, I changed his training regimen dramatically. There are a whole list of things he had done in his training through his early career, including the early morning distance runs. After the new program had time to take effect, he was amazed at how much harder he could hit and how much faster his punches got.

Tim

thanks for response tim , if i was to do say a long slow run for e.g. 10 miles after i done a condioning work - out or a skill work out would it have a negative effect on the work that i had already put in ? yours in sport hagler

[Tim Mousel]

If you did the 10 miles everyday, you could have detrimental effects to your speed and power. If you do it every once in a while, I highly doubt it. There needs to be some consistency in order to force the muscle fiber and energy systems to adapt.

[Tom Yum]

If you did the 10 miles everyday, you could have detrimental effects to your speed and power. If you do it every once in a while, I highly doubt it. There needs to be some consistency in order to force the muscle fiber and energy systems to adapt.

Tim,

I would assume the bread and butter for a fighter's power/speed work would be explosive weight training, plyometrics and sprinting. How would he cycle this into his training regime?

Should he do this on a regular basis (say 3 x per week) consistantly or cylce it as a competition/event approaches?

[Tim Mousel]

Yes, those are definitely important facets of the program.

It is best to follow separate but yet related periodization schedules for cardio, strength training and technical skills. Without the periodization it is easy to overtrain, peak too soon or too late and not achieve the optimal training stimulus.

Lets say there is a competition a few months from now in which you want a peak performance. Some general points:

1. Begin with high volume, low intensity. As the date gets closer, move towards lower volume, higher intensity.

2. Train speed/technique before strength/cardio.

3. The Undulating (non-linear) periodization model has been found to be more effective than the linear (classic) periodization model. My OPINION is for beginners to follow the linear model for one complete cycle and then move on to the non-linear model. If anyone finds those terms unfamiliar, the American College of Sports Medicine offers a MUST READ position stand on "Progression Models in Resistance Training for Healthy Adults". Here's the link: http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/pt-core/...media/0202.pdf

Hope that answers your question.

Tim

Tim,

I would assume the bread and butter for a fighter's power/speed work would be explosive weight training, plyometrics and sprinting. How would he cycle this into his training regime?

Should he do this on a regular basis (say 3 x per week) consistantly or cylce it as a competition/event approaches?

[glendanfig]

man the depth of these forums is unfathomable! i fucking love this shit.