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Is it a good thing to spar slowly with an opponent?dont u actualy learn better this way?
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You fight how you train. Having said that. I would recommend starting off slow and working up the pace. If you always sparred slowly you would not be able to react to a faster punch or kick being thrown your way because you have trained your brain at that speed. So, mix it up. =) -
The most important thing in sparring is intent, and this has to be there from day one. From the moment you begin sparring you have to move and strike with the deliberate intention of making contact, regardless of the pace you are sparring at.
I do agree with starting at 10% sparring, very slow and very light, but even so the goal is to touch your opponent with the shots. A lot of light sparring I see is just mutual shadowboxing, the intent is missing, and this is a habit that will stay with you as you progess in speed and power. I have seen guys who really excel in 10%, 25% or 50% sparring because they look very fast, dynamic and elusive - but they lack intent. Then when the time comes for them to go harder even against an average fighter, but one who has every intention of taking their head off, they wind up on the canvas.
So yes, I always start people off very slow and very light, and progress from there. However from day one I instill in people that they need to hit and understand they will get hit, that's intent. This of course requires very careful coaching, which is why I have never taught classes of more than 8 to 10 people. Leave a couple of guys with gloves and egos to their own devices, and 10% soon becomes 100%
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When I trained in one system (based in TKD), beginners would do what we called "exchange fighting". Basically, one oppopnent would throw 2 kicks at the other, then the second one would throw 2 kicks in return. It started with no contact, then evolved into the drill with pads and contact, and eventually free sparring.Comment
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Today i watched an old movie the way of the dragon and i saw bruce on the belcony doing sum moves.whats that?stretching of sumsort?just before he smelLs the foodComment
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Bottom line.Full power sparring is the path to success. Light contact is a training exercise FOR the real training...Full contact sparring.Originally posted by Jakes21 View PostComment
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Sparring full contact from day one will result in several outcomes. For one, you’ll be burnt out before you know it. Secondly, what constitutes “full contact?” I never spar full contact. Why? Because going full tilt to me means slamming that elbow full throttle into my opponent’s temple; connecting with that web hand strike to the throat with full body mechanics; ground fighting with full power strikes, eye gouges and biting in the parking lot. You really have got to define “full contact.”
A better mouse trap is to gradually bring your guys up to speed by:
• Solo, Command and Mastery in the air
• Solo, Command and Mastery hitting objects (such as focus mitts, etc.)
• Cooperative Drills w/ a Partner (this includes consentual sparring as it is commonly known)
• Uncooperative Drills w/ a Partner (this includes match sparring)
• Combat Scenarios (choreographed and non-choreographed)
When you reach the combat scenario part, it’s still not real; if it was you would have cheeks swinging off, broken noses, smashed heads, broken fingers and blood spatter everywhere. Buyers beware anyone who claims they are going full contact!
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JoeComment
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kind of agree with this, not sure what SOLO,COMMAND and MASTERY mean.Originally posted by Joe Hubbard View Post
not too keen on these vague terms, i think you should define them before using them, but yeah.
Full contact sparring is sparring where you are making full contact, what you talk about is an all out fight, the part where it is full contact SPARRING tells you its not to cause loads of damage.
So you have to keep it in context.
You say beware of those saying they are doing full contact. But everyone else knows what it means, cos full contact sparring is a fairly well defined thing.Comment
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Originally posted by Joe Hubbard View Post
Good stuff Joe, as usual!
This is essentially why I still enjoy Judo so much.
It's all good and rarely inflicts serious trauma. Unless you're trying to hurt them...
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Okay, let’s define Solo, Command and Mastery. With anything that you learn, you must learn to do it correctly. Therefore, there must be a logical progression to take your students from A to Z. As a good teacher, you need to be able to identify what attributes each student is lacking. In other words, if someone has crap footwork, you need to isolate that attribute and work on that before throwing someone in the deep end with sparring. There is an old saying that goes, “You cannot learn to swim on dry land.” I agree with this, but I like to tell people, “You cannot learn to swim in a Tsunami either.” There has to be a logical progression. First we learn words; then punctuation; then some grammatical rules; then we start to put simples phrases together; then into sentences, paragraphs, chapters and ultimately books. Sadly, this learning concept is dying out and it is reflective in many so-called reality systems where the overall product goes straight to a supermarket paperback. People who disregard the natural learning cycle are robbing their students by saying, “You will only learn to fight by fighting.” It becomes assholes and elbows and nobody learns anything. Now that MMA has had an upsurge many JKD practitioners have discarded so much good material saying that boxing, Greco and BJJ have it all. Not only are they dead wrong (how many people blindly rush into the clinch unaware of weapon deployment), but when I very first stepped into a hard-core boxing gym, they had me in a corner for weeks skipping rope and working footwork drills before I could even start to hit the bag. Alright, I am blathering here- once you start to put some phrases together, S,C and M becomes shadow fighting (notice I didn’t say shadow boxing). S,C and M while hitting things is just your standard solo workout against anything- heavy bags, top and bottom bag, B.O.B., wooden dummy, hitting sticks and knives on tires and trees; wherever your creativity leads you. Really if you think about it, Solo, Command and Mastery is a commonality through every combat art that ever has been!
I have to disagree that people understand what you mean by saying full contact. Of course, I understand what you mean, but the average person does not. I am constantly amazed by what people think is real. Just look at how many MMA guys actually believe that the UFC is as real as it gets. These aren’t just rookie kids; these are grown men- many who have trained in martial arts- who actually fall for this marketing. It should be clarified what is real and what isn’t- that’s the point that I try to drive home. Saying that, I am very much a proponent of dedicated training and conditioning that all MMA practitioners subscribe to. Before any MMA guys jump on my back, I love MMA and am thoroughly entertained by watching it- it’s just not real until you add weapons (knife, impact weapons and guns), multiple attackers and fighting in different environments and terrains.
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JoeComment
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yeah thats a good post, better now its defined what you mean and i agree with it.Comment
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Joe,
Its a good post buddy, but I'm gonna pitch in on a few points that I think you already know we see a little differently.
I agree that when teaching a student there has to be a progression. However, martial arts is full to the brim with superficial drills and routines that claim to form part of that progression, when in essence they are worthless. Functional training against a resisting opponent can start from day one, you know I believe and teach this. That doesn't mean going from zero to sparring, but you can remove a lot of the A's B's and C's commonly taught, and get straight on with the X Y Z's. The person won't be any less of a martial artist for it, they will just be efficient and effective far earlier in the equation.
I am one of the JKD people that has left a lot behind. I have moved on in both my training and teaching to embrace what I have found to be the most effective methods for my development, and that of my students. This has meant challenging a lot of the material many people use as their staple base, and introducing methods that I have found to be far more efficient and combat specific. Surely there is the irony Joe......isn't that what JKD is supposed to be?
Finally, MMA is real, its very real. There are rules, there are no weapons, and there is only one opponent. I appreciate where you are coming from. But for everything that there isn't in MMA, I will offer you ten things that there is. Conditioned, aggressive, technical athletes who can fight in all ranges, take whatever is thrown at them, keep on coming no matter what, and time after time they step up to the plate and prove it for all to see. Every MMA fighter I know, and I have been taught by and taught a few, has been prepared to step out of the cage and onto the pavement when asked to. They have done just fine too. Every "street" guy asked to step off the pavement into the cage.....has all of a sudden gone very quiet. I know which one of those I consider to be real.
Those are my thoughts buddy, as you know none of them are directed at you, just in response to your thoughts. Aways good to speak to you.Comment
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Good "Rep" all around guys! Thanks for the great contributions!Comment
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Hi Mike
I agree with most everything you say. I am totally supportive of the training regime of MMA athletes and agree that a clued up MMA guy would do well in the street physically. I would also say that a lot of other martial artists who were well conditioned athletes would also fight well in a street altercation. When I trained with Marshall Dow in Arizona, his guys were animals. The Kajakenbo guys in Texas and San Francisco are awesome. Any good trained person will hold his own against someone who is his size or about a 10% disparity. When you start to face larger opponents and more opponents and then armed opponents, the tables are now turned. Here is an example: as you know I worked quite a few different doors between 1997 and 2005 throughout the Greater London area. Not one time did I ever see a punter take on more than one bouncer successfully. That’s just got to tell you something. Of course I have heard stories, but never seen it. Police stats are very much the same- a group of police will most always defeat their aggressor in most unarmed situations. Prison stats match that as well; a friend of mine who is a corrections officer has worked for prisons that the infamous Charles Bronson has been in. Bronson is cited to be one of the strongest men alive breaking countless Guinness world records while never receiving credit because he is a felon. Whenever Bronson started trouble, they would send in a 9-man team to take him. He would usually knock out the lead man through the riot shield, but the other eight always got their man. A classic story that Bob Breen told me about Guro Inosanto during one of his trips to London, tells of Bob and Rick Young winding up Dan that they were going to a very rough neighborhood for dinner. Later, when they were about to leave Bob said that they were joking. Dan turned around and took out nine concealed knives and, “Well I guess I won’t be needing these then.” Bob said they were all shocked, but to Dan a rough area meant that there was possibly going to be trouble. He was thinking outside the box, always having an edge. Remy Presas was the same; whenever someone challenged him to a friendly stick spar, he would say that he would increase their odds by fighting them left handed. Cocky, Remy’s opponents didn’t realize until it was too late that Remy was in fact left handed- doh! None of this is said to take anything from all the fantastic MMA practitioners out there. In fact, one of Hock’s top instructors Jim McCann keeps us up to date with all the latest MMA trends and how to circumvent them. Sorry for the merciless plug, but check out Jim McCann’s ground series:
11: McCann Boxing, Ground Fighting, MMA at 01: SFC Supply Depot Home Page
Jim also has the best boxing series I have ever seen. His Ground and Pound DVD is undoubtedly the best reality ground fighting tape I have seen. You have got to check this guy out- he’s awesome.
Okay, back to the thread. I agree with you wholeheartedly about training with a resisting opponent, but there still needs to be a progression or let’s say a continuum. But here is the catch- it is dependent on each individual. You can’t go balls to the wall with someone who isn’t ready. There are a lot of guys out there who have, and in my opinion to make a name for themselves, disrespected the very drills that got them to where they are in their progression today. They have turned around and said these drills are now dead, essentially because they themselves have achieved what was needed from the drills. In other words, all drills are dead; the drills only serve as a means to be able to fight. How can somebody boldly say a drill like Hubud is dead, but a boxing focus mitt drill isn’t? It’s really down to who is your coach; ever done Hubud with Rick Young? Now, there does come a point and I agree that when you have reached the stage where you no longer need a particular drill, then by all means throw it away. What gets me about some of these guys is that they tell you certain drills are dead and then proceed to teach you a BJJ counter for counter DRILL. Yes, another drill!
The real deal with all of this is if you are an instructor, you may have to teach your students a drill that you yourself have now discarded. Why? Because they may need that to establish their overall skill development within the big picture. That’s what it is all about, transmuting the micro into the macro.
Here are the tactics that are banned from the UFC. Just thought I would throw this in for food for more chat:
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
Pretty eye opening isn’t it? Want to know how to circumvent the odds? Memorize these fouls and add them to your arsenal. Stories to remember are Renzo Gracie smashing up his knee when he attempted to shoot in on a knife attacker in New York and Lee Murray being stabbed five times outside of Funky Buddha in London. Remember, when it is all said and done, you will fight the way you train!
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JoeComment
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but Joe its hard to do that shit against a well trained MMA guy, the training they do means you cant easily pull that stuff off. And besides its not like you need training to do most of that.
most of those you can do anyway with no training at all.
And stuff like lee murray, i know lee, he was off his face when that happened. Its not really relevant or a fair comparison. Things go wrong sometiems for sure but i think most MMA guys are in a better position than most JKD guys.
JKD is largely untested, MMA is tested.Comment
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