Having a Hard Time Deciding What Style is Most Effective for Street Defense

[MarkAnthony]

I practiced Isshinryu for 4 years. Then I tried JKD with some grappling for one year.
Now, I've been out of the martial arts completely for 9 months.
I am very confused at this point. I am very eager to get back into the martial arts- full force. But my heart has to be in it.

The problem is I dont know which style I want to continue with.
Do I go back to Isshinryu, or stick with JKD.
JKD has made me a much qwicker fighter..........but Isshinryu made me a heavy hitter. I felt a lot more effective in Isshinryu, but too slow and rigid. Now I feel fast and fluid, but not a heavy hitter like I was in Isshinryu.

Any insight? I feel like JKD is great for self defense because you are quick.......but I'm not sure how heavy of a hitter I would be in a real life fight with JKD.

What to do..........what to do??

-Mark
Macerro@aol.com

[J.K.]

If you decide to study JKD - you can still use your karate - remember - use what is useful and dispose of what is not. JKD can be a combination of any style. I assure you though - if you study a curriculum that is similiar to Bruce Lee/Danny Inosanto/Larry Hartsell /Paul Vunak- you will find that there techniques are very effective and hard hitting. Headbutts, knees, elbows, eye gouging, groin grabbing, bitting, tearing, locking....If you have more hard hitting techniques in ishinryu - please enlighten me....Also, how can you feel effective when your slow and rigid(seems like a recipe for disaster). I'd much rather be fluid and quick.

[MarkAnthony]

I agree, I like it better now that I am more fast and fluid. The thing is, I really want to learn how to incorporate some heavy hitting into my JKD techniques. What I mean by that is........now that I am faster and more fluid, I feel like I am giving up some significant power. I want to be able to hit powerfully, yet always try to get quicker and more fluid. Any suggestions on how to best do this?

-Mark

[Twisted up]

What style? There is only striking and wrestling in a fight. What ever "style" you end up with has either striking or wrestling, or both in it.

In other words, style doesn't exist except perhaps in it's forms (katas, etc.). Why get so caught up in style? Why not just train?

What to train then you might ask? How about boxing, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, etc.. Learn to punch, knee, elbow and wrestle. Style has no bearing on ANY of that.

Why don't you check out the Straight Blast Gym's site? You'll find a ton of useful information there about fighting.

Get rid of the notion of style. Do that and you'll begin making REAL progress.

[Maxximus]

IMO, if you want to add heavy hitting to your method, then incorporate muay thai training. Or at least spend a good amount of time practicing your combos on the heavy bag (and have a coach or instructor give you pointers on your technique while doing so). I compete in Muay thai and also practice JKD. While I love the technical training aspect of the JKD method, I do not feel it has developed nearly as much raw power and attributes as thai training does.

[Bruce_Fan]

what works for you!

Hey Mark,

Have you done any sparring?
What works best for you?

What did you find practical against an opponent and what was tough to pull off?

I am curious to hear about it.

Thanks
Bruce_Fan


Ps. Maxximus, you live in L.A as well?
If you get a chance, send me an email sometime.
I'd like to hear where you study JKD and how you like the teachers, etc...
Love80sRock@aol.com

[MarkAnthony]

Have you done any sparring?
What works best for you?

What did you find practical against an opponent and what was tough to pull off?


Hi,

Yeah I have actually done quite a bit of full-contact, intense sparring.

When I was an isshinryu fighter, I felt like I was a very strong hitter. I felt rigid and slow though. But I did feel like I was a strong fighter- each hit was very effective.

When I went to JKD........even though I had a blackbelt in isshinryu, I felt like a total white belt again. I sparred against the instructor and let me tell you..........I was amazed! I was very upset at first. How could I be a blackbelt and feel like I am starting over? Well, after hours of sparring with this guy every week for about a year........I have gained some tremendous on the mat sparring and grappling experience. And I am 3 times faster, and can last 20 times longer without tiring out in a fight than when I was an isshinryu guy. but the strength? Its gone!

I realize that the simpler the better. Fancy just does not cut it.
The fancier the move, the better the chances its not gonna be effective.

Mindset is also an immensely important part of fight training.
Every move you make against the air when you are not sparring.........you must envision that you are fighting a terrorist, or a 280 pound truck driver with a crow bar in his hand (or whoever). It really works, and works well. But nothing compares to lots and lots of full contact sparring.

I remember when this guy came to our class to visit. Said he was a "top world ranked" TKD fighter. Well, when he sparred my instructor I realized that this poor guy was taught all wrong. All wrong! It looked like dancing, not fighting. That point sparring stuff just dont cut it.

I realize the importance of grappling. Unfortunately I still feel like a beginner in grappling. Sure, I know some basic stuff.......but I really want to get great at it.

What I find to be most effective is good old boxing punches with JKD blocks. Kicking is really not such a great thing I dont think. Except the side blade kick, I like that one a lot. But definitely I like to use the hands 99 percent, and kicks maybe 1 percent.

What I find to be a very effective way to train is to make it as realistic and practical as possible. Scenarios are good. Real life scenarios from all angles.

Ok talk later,

[Bruce_Fan]

Speed and strength

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the reply. It was good stuff.
I am bit confused, though.

When you say, you are not as hard of a hitter in JKD, do you mean it as far kicking or punching?

I am assuming that you mean it in an overall package.
So let me ask you this:
How did you hit in your isshinryu that made so much different than JKD?

I know that JKD emphasizes a lot of speed and quickness. That's one thing I am working on myself. (Speed).
Did you any particular exercises to gain speed?

Do you work with a heavy bag at all?
Going to the gym and hitting punching/kicking bags has helped me a lot, I feel.
That combined with weight lifting is a great source for strength training. (Do you lift weights?)

As far as real sparring: I agree with you.
Right now, I spar with head gear and boxing gloves on, which is great!! It allows you to punch someone at almost full strength. You can tell what works for you and what does not!

Thanks
Bruce_fan


Ps. If any other JKD guys have ideas for developing faster hands, please do share.

[MarkAnthony]

<
How did you hit in your isshinryu that made so much different than JKD?

Did you any particular exercises to gain speed?

Do you work with a heavy bag at all?

Do you lift weights?

I spar with head gear and boxing gloves on>>


Hi BruceFan,

When I say i'm not as hard a hitter, I am mainly talking about punching. Thats because JKD has made me focus on speed and stamina, rather than any strength at all.

How I gained such speed is just by doing the basic JKD exercises. Just doing them has automatically made me a much faster fighter.

I used to work with a heavy bag a lot in my earlier training days. Maybe I need to get back into that in order to gain my strength in hitting back. But I just get so bored on the heavy bag.

I used to lift weights a few years ago, and actually became very strong and muscular. I have not touched a weight in a few years, and I dont feel like I am missing anything.

I think its good to spar with head gear and boxing gloves. I dont see anything wrong with that at all.

-Mark

[J.K.]

Mark - You are missing the point - JKD is not a style - it has no limits. Its a matter of self discovery - trying to discover what will makes you best fighter. You are comparing karate to a philosophy. If you feel comfortable and strong using karate then why study anything else? My guess is you know you have weeknesses that need improving - so you are looking for additional tools to better yourself. Don't listen to people who claim there style is the best. You need to find out how to make your self the best fighter possible. Yes different syles offer different tools - pick and choose what works for you. Discover you weeknesses and make them strong. Use your strenghts to your advantage. Its all about develpment. Beaware of your physical attributes and train to maximize fullest potential.

You claim that once you started JKD oriented training you've lost your power - maybe you never had power to begin with. The purpose of exploring different MA isn't to forget what you already know but to build your foundation until you have a magnificent tower.

If you want to develop your power do a lot of bag work - use the heaviest bag availible and punch and kick as hard as you can. If you are regimented in your training you will notice a big differenece in your power in a couple of months. You also might want someone to critique your boxing mechanics. Have someone show you how to punch using proper mechanics. Also, power is not always the key, a slap to the nose or a poke to the eye will weaken your opponent. Think outside the box my friend.

[MarkAnthony]

Ok, I hear where you are coming from JK. Thanks for the advice everyone.

[sidder]

Hey Mark! Just keep an open mind and check out a broad spectrum of clubs. Everyone's always anxious to push their own style or methodology on others. I, personally, haven't been too impressed with what I saw of JKD, tkd, kenpo, traditional karate, and other arts. But we all have different agendas and interests. Only you can decide what'll suit you. Just remember, when a Christian tries to sell his neighbors on the truth of Christianity, we don't wonder why.

[MarkAnthony]

Sidder,

Since you have not been too impressed with many different martial arts.........which martial art do you like best?

[sidder]

My personal opinion is that, for pure street self defense, kyokushin and muay thai are great for developing quick powerful striking skills and the ability to deal with realistic attacks. Kyokushin's fist, hand, and shin conditioning is amazing, but muay thai tends to teach better boxing skills and combos. I'm also very fond of boxing, but it necessarily involves taking alot of cerebral punishment and must be supplemented by some hand and fist conditioning for the street. As far as grappling goes, in all honesty, it's a secondary concern for the street, where the most common situation starts with shoving or sucker punches (a la NHL). But I think that a minimum of six months to a year of bjj or submission wrestling can come in very handy. But the best way to confirm or refute anybody's advice on this matter is to giv e yourself a month and go check out a whole bunch of schools. You'll likely have a pretty good idea as to what's bs and what's the real deal. Just remember that, to my mind, unless you train full-contact, you're just whacking off

[MarkAnthony]

oh yeah, i definitely agree. martial arts training without full-contact sparring and grappling is an absolute waste of time.

i have a good base. so im gonna just go back to the jkd classes. i made up my mind. the instructor is great. he taught me a lot. so im gonna start going back there. we do jkd, full contact sparring, and grappling.