JKD Misconception!!!!!

[akja]

Originally posted by JIMI
No actually to some it just comes down to buisness. I am assuming you are familiar with the group that was formed after Lee's death called the Nucleus. My opinion of these greedy, suckin blood money thieves is very low. These people actually claimed that they were the rightful disciples of Bruce and were so unbelievably disrespectful to Guro Dan. Guro Dan of course to this day was the ONLY student of Bruce that was actually certified by Bruce to continue his teachngs. All others that abandoned Guro Dan, also abandoned Bruce.

Taky Kimura was the first to be certified by Bruce Lee and he still teaches although he is old, mostly his son taking over now.

The nucleus was not the 1st organization to be formed and there was nothing about money hungry nonsense. Dan Inosanto spoke publicly that he decided not to join. no big thing. And they didn't say those things. Thats all rumors. Don't beleive the hype. Especially off of the internet!

In the '80's there was the Jeet Kune Do Society and Dan Inosanto was involved and they all got along, for awhile anyway.

Seriously, your whole statement reflects how much you don't know!

[Bruce_Fan]

Seperating JDK From Jun Fan Gung Fu

Hey All,

Akja, man, where is all the anger coming from?

Jimi, I don't know if the Nucleus people are bloodsucking thieves. I think they are misguided. My personal belief is that (And I hope this is true) that their intentions are Pure.
I think they feel that out of loyalty to Bruce, they must teach exactly what he taught them! However, in doing so they miss the point of JKD. (As shown in my post earlier which featured the quote from Bruce himself.)

I think we must distinguish JUN FAN GUNG FU FROM JKD!
JKD does have some concepts (e.g 5 Ways of attack) but it is also a process of self-discovery and creativity. One that is used to enable the INIDIVIDUAL to Truly express him or herself. Of course, don't take my word for it. Read what Bruce said himself.

Most of us know that Bruce had studied various styles, sparred with people of different backgrounds (Dan Inosanto-Kali/FMA, Karate types-Chuck Norris, Wally Jay-Small circle Ju Jitsu) etc....
I mean how many people know that Bruce took Grappling lessons from Gene Labell?
He had 100s of books on fighting from Western Boxing to free styles wrestling, on and on and on!
I believe that he taught his students what he believed would work best for them. Look at it this way fellas: If Bruce was around right now in his 60s coaching a MMA fighter right now, would he teach them the exact same thing he taught Jerry Poteet for example? Of course not!

I respect the fact that people want to preserve Jun Fan Gung Fu. Guru Dan is also one of these people! However, Jun Fan is not to be mistaken with JKD.
It's that simple.
JKD is not just a philosophical approach to the Martial arts, but also a path for self-discovery which is what Bruce intended for all of us.

Below is a discritpion taken from Dan Inosanto's site, Www.Inosanto.com


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Lee Jun Fan Gung Fu
The Art & Philosophy of Jeet Kune Do

With Wing Chun at the core of his system, Bruce Lee incorporated a modification of various techniques from Northern Praying Mantis, Southern Praying Mantis, Choy Li Fut, Eagle Claw, Western Boxing, Wrestling, Fencing, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, and some of the more refined kicks of the Northern & Southern Chinese styles. Innovative and radically ahead of his time in his training and teaching methodology, Bruce Lee developed a martial system and fighting strategy that has lost none of its effectiveness over time.

Emphasizing the "ranges of combat". Students are taught to confidently and with ease "flow" from long distance,"kicking- range", to middle distance, "hand- range", to close quarter, "trapping & grappling range".

The movements are crisp, and efficient, utilizing the most direct lines and angles. JKD affords the practitioner a means by which to effectively pursue the most direct line of attack. And once an attack has been launched there are no breaks or interruptions. As one technique nears completion, it starts to blend into the next and so forth: one continuos flowing motion until the conflict is resolved.

The Jun Fan Gung Fu classes at the Inosanto Academy are devoted entirely to teaching and preserving the arts & philosophies of the late Bruce Lee. Students are able to enhance their natural attributes, such as coordination, timing, speed, endurance, strength and agility, using the innovative teaching and training methods developed by Bruce Lee, and preserved and taught to today by his protégé, student and training partner, Dan Inosanto


END OF QUOTE
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Bruce_Fan

[Phoenix9]

WOW!!! That was beautiful man..

[akja]

Phoenix9 ,
Do you ever talk about martial arts or are you 1 of those in the shadows d$%k s#%kers!

Bruce_Fan & JIMI, I'm a fool sometimes but thats just me. In the tradition of training under a great master and respecting what I was taught, I have an art not a concept.

I understand that Bruce changed a lot of things but that dosen't matter at all.

If I taught you an art for 5 years and then later tell you its not an art its a concept, then what do you have an art or a concept? You physically trained in a martial art and now i say it exists only in your head. Sounds like a bait and switch don't it.

Its not 100% like that but you have understand what I teach you becomes yours to do what you want with it. I can't say its not an art. I only say that mine is not an art period. You trained for 5 years and you have to make that decision if it is or not.

And my Sifu and Sigung made their decisions after Bruce died, long before most of us even knew what JKD is or was. Its not up to any of us to tell Sigung Macias he has no art!! Yet thats what you're trying to say!!

[JIMI]

I am just telling how it was told to me by a person(whos name shall remain anonymous) that was very close and personal student of Guro Dan. Guro Dan did choose not to join, because of the outrageous things that were said and done in that group. He knew that the Nucleus was not preserving what Bruce started and that all that it was due to a few other jealous students of Bruce kissing up to his wife and convincing her that they would take care of her and that she was entitled to money and dues that should be paid to her by all of Bruces students that joined the Nucleus. Guro Dan saw that the Nucleus was a horrible unsincere thing and chose not to be a part of it. Of course threats that were being made to Guro Dan also were a key factor why he chose not to join. As to other students that were so called certified by Bruce Lee, I have never heard of anyone that had the ranks or certificates that Guro Dan had. I think that a lot of people tend to leave Guro Dan in the dust, but lets try to remember that although Guro Dan was a student of Bruce, Bruce also was a student of Guro Dan. Guro Dan was just the humbler of the two. Guro Dan as far as i have read and been told was the man that taught Bruce all the weapons training. As far as i know Bruce did not have a whole lot of weapons training when he came to America and Guro Dan shared his wealth of knowledge with Bruce and taught him the FMA. So in actuality they were both Masters, but Guro Dan being the humbler kept the student/master relationship with Bruce and to this day i dont think that there was anyone more devoted to Bruce then Guro Dan. Sorry if i went way off again, just speaking my mind.

[sikal]

Originally posted by JIMI
Guro Dan as far as i have read and been told was the man that taught Bruce all the weapons training. As far as i know Bruce did not have a whole lot of weapons training when he came to America and Guro Dan shared his wealth of knowledge with Bruce and taught him the FMA.

Hm. As I understand it, Dan showed Bruce some FMA and Bruce said, "Huh" and walked off. A few weeks later, Bruce told Dan, "This is how I would use sticks." Dan watched and said, "That's Larga Mano, where did you learn that?" Bruce said, "It's just what I'd do."

I think it's more appropriate to say that Dan *introduced* Bruce to a lot of things and then Bruce picked them up and ran with them.

I think you're right though that Dan, acting as a sounding board for Bruce, did have a fair amount of influence on the development of JKD.

So in actuality they were both Masters, but Guro Dan being the humbler kept the student/master relationship with Bruce and to this day i dont think that there was anyone more devoted to Bruce then Guro Dan. Sorry if i went way off again, just speaking my mind.

I'd agree with that completely.

Mike

[akja]

I have great respect for Dan. But he wasn't the only one cerified nor was he first. No doubt Taky Kimura was the first. James Lee and Dan Inosanto followed. I'm not positive but I think James Lee was second, dosen't really matter.

If I was lucky enough to be Dans student, I would be humbled.

[sikal]

Originally posted by akja
I have great respect for Dan. But he wasn't the only one cerified nor was he first. No doubt Taky Kimura was the first. James Lee and Dan Inosanto followed. I'm not positive but I think James Lee was second, dosen't really matter.

If I was lucky enough to be Dans student, I would be humbled.

But Dan was the only one certified to teach all 3 of the arts that Bruce taught.

Mike

[Bruce_Fan]

Jun Fan Gung Fu

Hey Akja,

Jun Fan Gung Fu is definitely an arm form.
I think the way it is described on Dan Inosanto's site (as I posted) is a better description than what most of us could have come up with.

However, Bruce Lee was so much more than that. Any instructor teaching this technique should also pass along the philosophies, concepts, and Spirit of JKD.

I read your profile. You sound like you are totally JKD! lol
You have studied a variety of arts and now express yourself in what comes most naturally to you. That is the essence of JKD as I understand it!

Bruce_Fan

[auto]

How disheartening

I visited Inosanto.com and my heart dropped. Apparently my Si Fu has gone the commercial route. And then there is misinformation on the website. There were five people directly trained by Bruce. Four of them received certificates in JKD. Taky Kimura, James Lee, Dan and Ted Wong. I lost track of Ted in '97 but he is still around. He was teaching the underprivaleged in San Fransisco-- check out http://www.academyjkd.com/ . Dan Lee also trained under Bruce but received no cert. I know these things because I come from the Torrance school. I was learning Jun Fan from my buddy in '74 and '75. When I moved back to Los Angeles, he took me to school with him which it appeared, at least to me, that Dan didn't appreciate. However, he still took me in. There was no charge but he did ask for donations. That was '76 to '80 and then I moved again. Wow what a change now.
JKD was taught on Mondays and Wednesdays, or Tuesdays and Thursdays I kind of forget--it was a long time ago--it was a small select group chosen by a JKD panel. No certs and no teaching other people. You could drive right by the building and not even notice it. No signs outside, just a big brick building with two huge roll up doors and on both sides were tinted glass doors with a ying yang symbol barely visible from outside. The roof was funky, always made me laugh-only went a quarter of the way around the building. Inside was beautiful though. Bags everywhere, leg stretchers, ballet bars for stretching, there was this huge bag taller than I was that just sat in the corner on the floor all the time. Circles on the floor everywhere with smaller circles inside--small bags, big bags, tether balls, rows and rows of weapons, speed timers. And get this, a small drum set in the corner--we trained to music and beats to practice broken rythm.
Bruce was my Si Gung, my Si Jo. It's a shame that it has come to what it is now. And for those of you who keep saying my Si Gung knew nothing about grappling--ignorance is bliss so they say--there's nothing more satisfying than elbow/ankle/leg locking an opponent after crashing past his kick or punch--finally after soooo many tries while learning or, applying a thumb break step over knee hold that they absolutely cannot escape from--not even being able to bite or grab anything. Forget arm bars those are for fools--they look good in the ring-but in the street there is no tapping out--guess what he is doing with that other hand? Grabbing your leg and biting down really hard--it becomes a matter of who can take the most pain--believe me you are going to let go REAL QUICK. That's why I loved my Si Fu, no fooling around, only functional stuff, lock your opponent up and stay out of harms way.
I really admire old man Gracie for developing his art to the point that it is now. But basically, it was developed for their form of competition, not the street. Though some of you say it is functional in the street. I have never seen any BJJ'er or MMA'er stop hit or stop kick an opponent to the point he could not fight anymore. Their punching skills are lacking--long telegraphed swings that can be easily thwarthed by the most highly skilled fighters. And defensive skills that involve pulling the head straight back?? No sidestepping, no circling, no slipping or ducking or bobbing or weaving, no finger jabs, no blows to the groin or throat, no kneeing when the opponent is down on all fours, no shattering the knee, no eye gouging, no ear pulling, no biting, no ripping the testicles, no thumb breaking, no blows to the base of the skull, no 'fish hooking' the jaw, no pinching, no thumbs in the larynx, no stomping a downed opponent--blah blah blah. Only, low kicks with the rear leg, a little swinging and then to the floor for an arm bar or scissor or the OCCASIONAL rear choke out.
We were taught, if it went more than ten seconds, you screwed up, chose the wrong stroke for the job. But , if it did go farther, be prepared for the long haul.
No use crying over spilled milk, I am happy that my Si Fu has become successful after all these years, he deserves it, especially after how he treated us--like a family. I noticed that he finally has let JKD go in peace and now only teaches the philosophy of it--how wonderful.

[akja]

OK,
YOU WERE THERE WHO KNOWS YOU??

[Phoenix9]

UUHHH.... What's your problem Beavis? You guys are gonna spend the rest of your lives talking about the same crap..

[akja]

Why are you worried about what WE talk about?

You should read your own post!

[Phoenix9]

Not worried man just want to learn something besides what has been discussed over and over again... It seems to me the martial arts is now all about who said this or who taught that, what ever happened to self discovery?

[sikal]

Originally posted by Phoenix9
Not worried man just want to learn something besides what has been discussed over and over again... It seems to me the martial arts is now all about who said this or who taught that, what ever happened to self discovery?

Everything is cyclical.

You'll see this type of thread pop up and fade away every so often. Just "are trap hands effective" discussions. Just like "how did Bruce really die" discussions. Just like "grappling vs. striking" discussions. Just like ... well, you get the idea.

But, in the midst of these discussions, people can and do find some self discovery.

I agree that discussions like this are, largely, a waste of time and space ... but so goes life, eh?

Mike