Who did Bruce lee actually fight?

[Domstarr]

Jules,

You must have had a hard time in school reading and comprehending.

1) No one ever said Bruce was a demi God.

2) Dan spoke of Bruce's fights IN WRITING in publications. I already told you that. Just because you didn't read any of this stuff in your JKD training only means that YOU DIDN'T READ IT. iT DOESN'T MEAN IT WASN'T WRITTEN. You're not taking my word for it. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS???

3) Fred Weintraub said it in a documentary on Bruce Lee on PUBLIC TELEVISION. You are not taking my word for that either. He said it fifteen years after Enter The Dragon made all it's money, so he had no reason to make it up. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS??

4) Now I've said this one three times already, let's see if you get it the fourth time. I NEVER SAID BRUCE WON ANY TOURNAMENTS. I NEVER SAID HE FOUGHT WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL FAMOUS MARTIAL ARTISTS. I only said that he got in his share of real fights, meaning NOT tournaments, meaning martial artists who wanted to fight him, that's all I said. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS NOW? If not, what part don't you get and I can send over a sixth grader I know to explain it to you.

5) Even if he did fight people who were famous martial artists then, (Which I'm not saying he did, so don't start) you and I would not even recognize their names now.

So before you answer anything, go back and read all the statements that were really made so you don't make the same mistake as Robert and keep contradicting and repeating yourself. Then you make me have to repeat it over and over because you didn't get it the first four times.

[Pencode]

Rebuttal? I look at it this way. If you are an intelligent person you should be able to locate this info yourself especially when someone gives you names. Instead, you chose to deny, insult and make any excuse for not being able to discover or find out things for yourself.

You know who Chuck Norris is, right? How about Mike Stone or Joe lewis? If you have access to ancient info, you would know the quotes that came out of these guy's mouths. Chuck was quoted as saying, " Bruce must have esp or something, everything I did he countered with ease". What does that tell you? Did Bruce have to bloody him? Did he have to pummel him before he was considered to be very good? After winning his championship Joe was quoted as saying,"...it is because of Bruce's teaching that I am holding this belt now."

If I sparred with you and you couldn't lay a hand on me would you not go around telling people that I was the most amazing fighter you had ever seen. I know I would if it were reversed. The only people who wouldn't are those whose feelings would be hurt like Chuck and Joe who both later on in their careers were quoted as saying that Bruce wasn't about shit just to save face.

Use your common sense, deduce, use logic and figure things out for yourself. If someone told you that the moon was made of cheese, was only a mile from the earth and glowed in the dark because it is covered with flourescent dust, would you believe it? The non ignorant person would find out for themselves and learn that the moon is not made of cheese, is millions of miles from the earth and glows because it reflects the sun. So spend more time searching and less time insulting if you really want to know the truth about things. People answer you but you choose to ignore anything said just to create more chaos, to have more fun insulting, putting others down to make yourself feel better. Kinda gives away your age(at least your mental age) don't you think?

[Kirves]

Originally posted by Pencode
like Chuck and Joe who both later on in their careers were quoted as saying that Bruce wasn't about shit just to save face.

Where has Chuck said things like that? I have his books (written in the nineties) and he only talks about how great Lee was.

[Pencode]

Jukado1, I also believe that Gracie was no match for Bruce. The reason Bruce didn't fight well known people is because it became dangerous for him to even spar with people without holding back. This is according to Dan himself. You seem to know your history, more than some others here. So then you would also know that Bruce had to start training against machines and mechanical devices. Things he could go "full on" against without fear of hurting or killing and then control his sparring against real opponents. Of course someone out there will start with their "Here we go again with Bruce the superhuman"... but hey what was witnessed or quoted is what was. Dan is a very nice guy and I don't think he is a liar or would make things up.

The three guys he sparred against were the three champs at the time. They all said the same thing. If Bruce had gone full on with them he would have killed them. Not my words... theirs.

[Pencode]

Kirves, I wish I could remember where I found that interview with Chuck. It was during the time he started training with the Brazilians. He said something to the order that Bruce wasn't all that. Sorry bro. Try doing a search for interviews with Chuck on www.expressfind.com

[Pencode]

I did a search and found these tidbits http://www.mikemiles.com/lewis.html Joe Lewis insulting Bruce

http://www.cityonfire.com/unknown/interviews/bobwall/ Here Bob talks about a 300lb bag he made for Bruce, some fight challenges and why a lot of info on Bruce is not available anymore...ok Robert G?

Sorry Kirves, I still can't find anything on Chuck. I'm old so I am probably mistaken. Maybe it was Mike Stone or Steven Seagal. My apologies. After reading a few interviews, looks like Chuck is one of the good guys.

[Cadden]

That stuff about Lee being unable to spar other people because he was "too dangerous" is absolute mythological crap. Firstly, it's untrue. Secondly, if it was true, then it would be a negative to Bruce: martial arts is all about power and control, if he could not control his power and output in a simple sparring situation he lacked discipline and self control. Not a good thing.

Wong Shun Leung, Bruce Lee's Sifu up until his death, who trained him from the beginning of his MA courier, wrote this about him. Quite different from your "superhuman" view of Bruce.

http://www.wongvingtsun.co.uk/wslbl.htm

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ray.d8/article13.html

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~bundles/JesseGlover.htm

A good article nonetheless.

"By the time that Bruce returned to Hong Kong for the second time the only person who had a chance of stopping Bruce's attack was Wong Shun Leung. "

-- Jesse Glover

Seems Sifu Glover can have respect for other fighters and also realise Bruce was not unbeatable: maybe you should too.

[Kirves]

Originally posted by Pencode
Sorry Kirves, I still can't find anything on Chuck. I'm old so I am probably mistaken. Maybe it was Mike Stone or Steven Seagal. My apologies. After reading a few interviews, looks like Chuck is one of the good guys.

Yeah, well, I'm only a Chuck Norris fanatic ( ), but I've only heard him speak highly of Bruce Lee. And his "autobiographic" zen-books have chapters on how great Lee was.

[Pencode]

[Of course someone out there will start with their "Here we go again with Bruce the superhuman"... ]

Just like I said.

They are Dan Inoasanto's words not mine. If you were not there at the time who are you to contradict Danny.

The other problem with your thinking is that Martial Art is not about power and control, hence the name. It is about self defense. Chinese against the Manchus, Japanese used karate to defend against their oppressors. These were the reasons for the creation of the "empty hand arts". If you yourself are not training "all out", then what will happen when you encounter a true life and death situation? Use your control? pull your punches?

People have all kinds of reasons for studying MA. Health, disipline, blah blah blah. Yet these are the same people who have never had to defend their lives or those of their families.
I defended this country twice and yes I killed many men. Therefore, I don't have this false sense of reality like much of the world. Bruce also did not believe in false humility to cover up inadequacy.

Question, was Jesse there in China when Bruce revisited? Because the stories we read back in the early seventies was that during his visit to the school he made so many of the Wing Chun guys look stupid that none of them wanted anything to do with him...especially the senior students. Info comes from M. Uyehara himself...I just found it.

Sounds like another one of those "guys" trying to save face and build himself up by insulting and "demystifying" a man who is not alive to defend himself.

Wong Shun Leung and William Chueng were Bruce's seniors not his SiFu. SiFu was Yip Man. According to William, Bruce was taught Modified Wing Chun not traditional Wing Chun and that accounts for his dissatisfaction with Wing Chun. Again, his words not mine. And then later Wing Chun split into two factions.

[jukado1]

Pencode: thanks for the mike miles site, BUT where in there did Joe Lewis insult Bruce Lee? and where did it say that Joe or Mike Stone ever sparred with Bruce? it does'nt. as far as using equiptment, Bruce wanted it primarily to train when he had no one to work with, as far as being to deadly, do you kick a bag full power? could you kick a stationary training partner full power and not hurt him? Bruce was one of the very best martial artest that ever lived, but please, don't say he was super human, he trained somewhat as a pro when most people were still doing kata and saying that it was the secert to being a fight master, Bruce's main gift was the ability to conceptilize, and to help others improve. thanks for the time, but i've got to go to work may it be well.

[jules]

Pencode,

Rebuttal? I look at it this way. If you are an intelligent person you should be able to locate this info yourself especially when someone gives you names. Instead, you chose to deny, insult and make any excuse for not being able to discover or find out things for yourself.

OK let's see what happened. You claimed somthing and i asked for proof. Now when a person claims something the burden of proof is on that person. Do you get this simple logic? If you feel that your claims are not worth the time and effort to prove them; then you should not make them in the first place. It's called a debate. One claims something and someone else questions it. Then if the claim is true the person comes up with proof. It has nothing to do with my intellegence but the basic rules of debate; or are you unwilling to actually back up your claims?

[jules]

...He always sent me letters telling me his progress and achievement. He also asked me whether he could defeat Cheung. He asked this question in his letters to Cheung too. These questions were meaningless. It is because our greatest enemy is our own self. It would be very good if we could improve every day, then is not necessary for us to compare with other people. This was my answer to him. Later, from his words I think he had learnt this principle. Nevertheless, he still took Cheung as his imagined opponent. One month before he died, he still asked me the same question.
When he asked me, I replied, "You have improved. Don't you know that? In the past, he had more combat experience than you. Today, because he has such a character, he will still have many opportunities to compete, but since I have not seen him recently, I cannot answer your question."
Hearing my words, he remained silent for a long time. If I knew he would die soon, I would have said some good words to make him happy.

Apparently Bruce Lee himslef did not know if he could defeat his friend. At least according to his sifu Wong Shun Leung.

http://www.wongvingtsun.co.uk/wslbl.htm

This is not a diss on Lee just bringing some of his worshipers back to earth. B. Lee was a great martial artist that had done wonders for it's popularity. Let's just keep it at that.

[Thai Bri]

There is some sad hero worship going on here, and it is a little frightening how far it is going.

The guy was H - U - M - A - N.

No more, no less.

Sure he trained real hard. Probably too hard. And he certainly knew how to market himself. He came up with ideas of his own and helped many people make sense of much of the martial arts myths that were already floating around at the time. But now he has become one too.

I'm with Jukado. He has spoken with personal knowledge and experience, but has been mature enough to avoid falling into the trap of "worship".


The question is about who Bruce actually fought. Not sparred with. Not did tricks on. Fought. We have Wong Jack Man and............ well. Nobody else. And even then theres a disagreement on what happened, and it was when Bruce was mostly into Wing Chun anyway.

If Bruce Lee was a world beating champion fighter he did a good job of hiding it, because all the other world beating fighters of the era didn't get to fight him. You can't say that of the Gracies, now can you?

[WaTEr]

I challenge all of you who say bruce lee was not anything less than what penocde had to say cuase its all true. Come find me and i'll beat your ***.

[Thai Bri]

Well, that about sums up the thrust of the argument for Bruce.

You sad little twat.