Wong Jak Man kicked Brue's ass.

[Kakarot71]

Originally posted by chris davis 200


Get it into your heads guys, the US are no more superior than anyone else. The huge American Ego is what causes most of the problems in this world - not what solves them! IMO.

'have a nice day'

It's funny how all the problems in the world get blamed on the USA.

Problem: Starving countries in Africa.
Cause: American Ego
Problem: Muslim extremist committing acts of terrorism.
Cause: American Ego.
Problem: Guerillas in South America Kidnapping innocent people.
Cause: American Ego.

Let me guess, The SARS problem in Asia is our fault too, right?

Come on, people!

I have to admit I do agree with Chris on one thing. This WW2 stuff is getting boring.

[IPON]

KevinHallman: It doesn't matter if what you say is correct about Serrada YOU my friend need to show some respect!! Or you should be kicked of the forum.

And moving past patritism and propaganda...........The issue with Bruce Lee


before you can have an intellegent discussion regarding his "brilliance" you have to define the age old question: "is it a philosophy or style" I will not give my opion and strat another argument pro/con but I will provide this:

"My style of no style"

"The Tao of Jeet Keune Doactually began before Bruce was born,,,The 2,000 or so books he owned and the countless books he read, described the invididual "discoveries"of thousands of men before him. There is nothing new within this book; there are no secrets. "it is nothing special," Briuce used to say. And so it wasn't"


"hopefully, this book will be used azs a source of ideas for all martial artists ideas that should then develop further. Ineveitably and regrettably the book may also cause a rash of "Jeet keune Do" Schools, headed by people who know the reputation of the name and very little about teh movement, beware of such schools!"

I can't speak to the fight and noone of this forum can either as they were not there. What I can speak to is Bruce's influce.

Bruce Lee was to Martial arts what Muhamad Ali was to Boxing. Bruce's main contribution was exposing the brilliance of chinense martial arts and particular his background to an america that was rooted in Karate. Becuase he was both an actor and Martial artists. Where there other martial artist at the time yes, but none that were are camera friendly with his knowlege of MA and medida. People took any matial art just to be like Bruce......heck my uncle even bought and wore the yellow jumpsuit with the balck stipr when he sparred TKD. This is similar to the tidal wave now for BJJ specifically GJJ.

in terms of techniques.....to say bruce was revolutionary is simply untrue and rejects many martial arts styles. What is true is that he was one of this firsts to put out nononse self defense. in terms of technique was he more inflential than ed parker that is debatable. Was Bruce invincible ..no nor did he think he was nor did he have all the answers....which is why he was so obssessed.

Does everyone think that MA just start with Bruce Lee and that he has never been beaten. Was Bruce a God ...no, the last word or fighting...hell no, did he think he was .....HELL NO (cocky ....... yes) don't get me wrong I am a big fan of Bruce and what he was trying to do, but my point is this if you believe what he says and root yourself myopically into a system he did not design you are just as static and not being true to yourself.

[brokenelbow]

SAS & SBS are top notch with the SAS being the model of the non-existant Delta. And yes the US had to be dragged into the war and Britain would have eventually been overrun but considering that the Brits fought hard and well and were the only thing standing in the way of the Nazi's.

In general Americans have NO idea what WW2 in Europe was about, like or entailed - except what they saw on 'saving private ryan'. Which incidentally was based on a british rescue!! The news, the history lessons the education in the US - is - funnily enough about the US! No wonder they know nothing of the world!

Agreed but be careful, revisionism is done by everyone. How many really died in the Charge of the Light Brigade and which countries soldiers made up th bulk of the Thin Red Line that stopped the Russian advance?

[M@T]

Dumbass americans couldn't even stop a bunch of ragheads flying planes into the 2 most important buildings in the country.

And I don't even need to mention our SAS. Oops too late now

Our SAS are the best in the world, no questions and everyone knows it. Even your top general admitted on TV that they are the best.

It took your lot several hours to kill Saddam's sons and there were only about 10 people in the building. Tanks, helicopters and loads of heavy machine guns. Do some research on the Iranian Embassy siege to see how the SAS get some people out of a building.

[Thai Bri]

What abouyt the Enigma code, cracked by British Intelligence, until the Americans make a film about it..... Then its the US who did it.......

Pearl Harbour made me laugh out loud. Basically the Japanese caught the Americans napping, through the typical non intervention and cowardly incompetence of their leaders. So they make a film about getting battered, and add a mythical bit on about some great brave air attack in return. An attack that never happened.

We would all have German accents but for the British who held out long enough against the greatest army in the world at that time.

[chris davis 200]

If it wasn't for USA you guys will be speaking German now

Jeez!

the US played 'a' role in europes WW2 - but by no means 'the' defining role.

the US were not the noble saviours they like to believe they were.

They helped out with some handy conditions!

Like the removal of all british air bases in the US and the insertion of a bunch in the UK otherwise no help. Etc Etc.

Various trade negotiations etc etc.

The battle of britain, the D day landings, it all would have been successful weather the US were there or not. The planning and brilliance of the british Statergists were what won the war.

In general Americans have NO idea what WW2 in Europe was about, like or entailed - except what they saw on 'saving private ryan'. Which incidentally was based on a british rescue!! The news, the history lessons the education in the US - is - funnily enough about the US! No wonder they know nothing of the world!

man o man the WW2 argument is tired and Hugely boring!

Get it into your heads guys, the US are no more superior than anyone else. The huge American Ego is what causes most of the problems in this world - not what solves them! IMO.

'have a nice day'

[Serrada]

"Lee himself in an interview with Black Belt. "I’d gotten into a fight in San Francisco (a reference, no doubt, to the Bay Area rather than the city) with a Kung-Fu cat, and after a brief encounter the son-of-a-bitch started to run. I chased him and, like a fool, kept punching him behind his head and back. Soon my fists began to swell from hitting his hard head. Right then I realized Wing Chun was not too practical and began to alter my way of fighting."

Exactly how the fight proceeded and just who won are still matters of controversy, and will likely remain so. But from the few available firsthand accounts and other evidence, it is possible to piece together a reasonably reliable picture that reveals two overriding truths. First, considering the skill of the opponents and the complete absence of referees, rules, and safety equipment, it was one hell of a fight that took place that day in December. And second, Bruce Lee, who was soon to rival Mao Tse Tung as the world’s most famous Chinese personality, was dramatically affected by the fight, perhaps fatally so.

Wong says he parried Lee’s kicks with his legs while using his hand and arms to protect his head and torso, only occasionally delivering a stinging blow to Lee’s head or body. He fought defensively, explains Wong, in part because of Lee’s relentless aggressive strategy, and in part because he feared the consequences of responding in kind to Lee’s attempt to kill him. In pre-revolutionary China, fights to the finish were often allowed by law, but Wong knew that in modern-day America, a crippling or killing blow, while winning a victory, might also win him a jail sentence.

That, says Wong, is why he failed to deliver a devastating right-hand blow on any of the three occasions he had Lee’s head locked under his left arm. Instead, he says, he released his opponent each time, only to have an even more enraged Bruce Lee press on with his furious attack. "He would never say he lost until you killed him," says Wong. And despite his concern with the legal consequences, Wong says that killing Lee is something he began to consider. "I remember thinking, ‘If he injures me, if he really hurts me, I’ll have to kill him."

But according to Wong, before that need arose, the fight had ended, due more to what Linda Lee described as Lee’s "unusually winded" condition than to a decisive blow by either opponent. "It had lasted," says Wong, "at least 20 minutes, maybe 25."

Though William Chen’s recollections of the fight are more vague than the other two accounts, they are more in alignment with Wong’s than Lee’s. On the question of duration, for example, Chen, like Wong, remembers the fight continuing for "20 or 25 minutes." Also, he cannot recall either man being knocked down. "Certainly," he says, "Wong was not brought to the floor and pounded into a ‘state of demoralization.’"

Regarding Wong’s claim that three times he had Lee’s head locked under his arm, Chen says he can neither confirm or deny it. He remembers the fighters joining on several occasions, but he could not see very clearly what was happening at those moments.

Chen describes the outcome of the battle as "a tie." He adds, however, that whereas an enraged Bruce Lee had charged Wong "like a mad bull," obviously intent upon doing him serious injury. Wong had displayed extraordinary restraint by never employing what were perhaps his most dangerous weapons - his devastating kicks.

A principal difference between northern and southern Chinese fighting styles is that the northern styles give much more emphasis to kicking, and Northern Shaolin had armed Wong with kicks of blinding speeds and crushing power. But before the fight, recalls Chen, "Sifu Wong said he would not use his kicks; he thought they were too dangerous." And despite the dangerous developments that followed that pledge, Chen adds that Wong "kept his word." Though Chen’s recollections exhaust the firsthand accounts, there are further fragments of evidence to indicate how the fight ended.

Ming Lum, who was then a San Francisco martial arts promoter, says he did not attend the fight because he was a friend of both Lee and Wong, and feared that a battle between them would end in serious injury, maybe even death. "Who," he asks, "would have stopped them?" But Lum did see Wong the very next day at the Jackson Café, where the young grand master earned his living as a waiter (he had, in fact, worked a full shift at the busy Chinatown restaurant the previous day before fighting Lee). And Lum says the only evidence he saw of the fight was a scratch above one eye, a scratch Wong says was inflicted when Lee went for his eyes as he extended his arm for the opening handshake.

Some people say Bruce Lee beat up Jack Man bad," note Lum. "But if he had, the man would not have been to work the next day." By Lum’s assessment, the fact that neither man suffered serious injury in a no-holds-barred battle indicates that both were "very, very good." Both men were no doubt, very, very, good. But Wong, after the fight, felt compelled to assert, boldly and publicly, that he was the better of the two. He did so, he says, only because Lee violated their agreement to not discuss the fight.
"

[Lizard]

Originally posted by huey

you may not get "Jim Bob's" sarcasm soo....
If england hadn't helped put Hitler into power in the first place they wouldn't have had to stand in the their way in the second place.

Ive studied history in school. Did a bit of learning on hitlers rise to power etc. When exactly did the british put hitler into power? I must have been off that lesson...

Originally posted by Kakarot71

If it wasn't for USA you guys will be speaking German now

I happen to like German, its a very effiecient language, and besides, english is almost like a kind of german so your speaking some german right now!

[Thai Bri]

The Americans could not be arsed with the war against Nazism until they got dragged into it.

Not something to be proud of, is it?

[huey]

i wasn't gonna say anything until

"This view of the Second World War always makes me laugh. It is tru that the Nazis were preparing for War when everyone else was sleeping. When they were ready the made devastating strikes across Europe, and were well on their way to world domination. Only Great Britain stood in their way for so long. We held the line whilst America carried on with its non intervention policy. Ok, you sold us some equipment, and sent us Jim Bob's gun for the Home Guard.
But you only joined in half way through when your hand was forced. Not something to be proud of, is it?"

well giving a guy a shovel to fill in the hole he created seems like a lot of help man.

you may not get "Jim Bob's" sarcasm soo....
If england hadn't helped put Hitler into power in the first place they wouldn't have had to stand in the their way in the second place.
Not something to be proud of, is it?
besides when "the sleeping giant awoke" shit happened dinit?

[KevinHallman]

Look, I'm just posting a fact I got from Bruce Lee's website, so please do not flame me over it. It is well known among certain circles within the martial arts that Serrada is a stupid asshole and should be banned for her lack of ability to post intelligentely.
Goodbye bitch.

[adacas]

hey we can't take all of the credit. Lets face it, it took the USSR, Britain, the U.S. and a few French freedom fighters (where do you think some of our intelligence came from) to beat little ol' Germany. And I know what your thinking...we had to fight two fronts. yes but we had help there too. USSR, China, Philipines and Australia. We did a lot of work but not all of it. Im USA all the way but I know how to appreciate a helping hand. So go ahead and drink your british tea spiked with vodka while eating a croissant.

[redazncommieDXP]

Originally posted by Kakarot71
"


Well said, DRG.
Why can't people accept the fact that we were and still are the saviors of the free world!! Maybe it's jealousy.

Well, how about Stalin's USSR? If it weren't for Stalin, Hitler undoubtedly could have beaten Churchill and moved on to give Roosevelt a good spanking.

[Tom Yum]

There's a guy on Montrose ave. that would like to free your world!!

[Kakarot71]

Originally posted by DRG

"And we didn’t have to help you in WW2 the Nazi's were never a threat to the U.S., but we knew you Brits were about to go under. We took a while to come to Europe’s aid but we wanted to make sure we could win before we got there, years before D-day we were ramping up the war machine and making the tanks planes, landing ship tanks, bombs in the factories we used to make cars, boats and other things in. Without the U.S. you guys would have been floating in a sea of shit. The only thing that kept you Brits from going down quicker was that we had our fliers and our planes over there keeping the Germans from crossing the English channel and wiping your asses out, seeing as you were barely hanging on. Try making your own searches on the Internet, reading a book or watching the history channel sometime idiot maybe you’ll learn something! [/B]

"


Well said, DRG.
Why can't people accept the fact that we were and still are the saviors of the free world!! Maybe it's jealousy.