What TKD patterns do you study?

[GranFire]

Damian Mavis? what are u fuckn talkin about? ITA ? seroiusly man if u are not wtf or itf go hm and do something else

Ah, what the hell...I am having a lousy week...why not blow of some steam...

1) It doesn't make you a man to use foul language...
2) Your Sabumnim failed misserably to teach you humility.
3) You are closeminded. Heaven help you, have you considered you could actually learn something from a different approach?!
4) History and Tradition are far reaching, they do not stop or start at a certain point. According to Tuttle Martial Arts on TKD there was no unison between the schools of Korean Martial Arts in the 1950s, no more than there is now...which one is the real root of TaeKwonDo?!

[ITFDespoja]

Damian Mavis? what are u fuckn talkin about? ITA ? seroiusly man if u are not wtf or itf go hm and do something else

[GranFire]

Ok....... first page states a blatant lie... TKD is 4000 years old? Its just over 50 years old. Not a good sign if they are promoting that kind of propoganda. Don't know why you wanted me to check that site out. It only made me more critical and it just states that the founders started TKD BEFORE they formed ITA and its obvious by the copying of the pattern names IN THE EXACT SAME ORDER that they were ITF style before they broke off and formed ITA. Like I said, none of this matters, but you should face reality and accept or they should admit that they were in the beginning ITF. That's all I'm arguing with you about at this point. They took some things from ITF such as patterns, that's fine but admit to it for crying out loud don't pretend you made them yourself or that they come from 4000 years ago.

It would help if I could see video of your patterns in action, if they are completely different then I will concede all your group did was take a list of names and use them in the exact same order to name their own patterns.


Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

Go punch a bag or something!

[ITFDespoja]

1.Chon-Ji
2.Tan-Gun
3.To-San
4.Won-Hyo
5.Yul-Guk
6.Joong-Gun
7.Toi-Gye
8.Hwa-Rang
9.Choong-Moo
10.Kwan-Gye

my patterns and thats the good thing about itf. we have all same not like the wtf

[Damian Mavis]

Ok....... first page states a blatant lie... TKD is 4000 years old? Its just over 50 years old. Not a good sign if they are promoting that kind of propoganda. Don't know why you wanted me to check that site out. It only made me more critical and it just states that the founders started TKD BEFORE they formed ITA and its obvious by the copying of the pattern names IN THE EXACT SAME ORDER that they were ITF style before they broke off and formed ITA. Like I said, none of this matters, but you should face reality and accept or they should admit that they were in the beginning ITF. That's all I'm arguing with you about at this point. They took some things from ITF such as patterns, that's fine but admit to it for crying out loud don't pretend you made them yourself or that they come from 4000 years ago.

It would help if I could see video of your patterns in action, if they are completely different then I will concede all your group did was take a list of names and use them in the exact same order to name their own patterns.


Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[GranFire]

Well I'm really not too concerned heh, but theres a million other hardcore ITF'ers that would condemn your school, not saying that to be a jerk, I just know from experience. I've been taught 3 federations styles so I'm not as worried about who does what. My instructor was originally WTF, then when I joined we were ITF, then he switched to GTF after I got my black belt and when I left him I went back to ITF and living in Thailand I've trained alot of WTF. I'm not saying doing something different from what I'm doing is wrong, (I've done alot of different styles!) I'm just arguing about the way it seems your instructor is inferring the roots of his style didnt come from ITF. Dont be too angry at me because I'm just continuing the debate for the sake of debating, what you and your instructor do is no business of mine heh and all the power to you guys. But I'll throw this at you anyway:

You are implying that your federation only shares a few names out of coincidence.... really? In the same order? But the moves are all different? I'm sure the only differences are the ones your instructor did and thought of himself. I'm positive at one time he was in the ITF and after he left he implemented a bunch of changes. In my opinion this is wrong.... but so what..... lots of people break off and do something similar, doesnt mean they can't teach TKD well. Or can't fight well. But to me if I were to break off there would be only 2 options. One is to continue teaching the ITF style and freely admit it and if anyone asks just tell them I love ITF TKD but couldnt stand the politics and federation OR I would get rid of everything and just be independant and not use anything that resembled my previous affiliation. To me when you do something in the middle you risk looking like a bad copy of something much bigger and I would'nt want that. Either stay exactly the same or completely different is the way to go.

Anyway, like I said, no business of mine, just giving my opinion.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

My instructor has been ITA for twenty years.

www.itaonline.com have fun reading about the founders...

I understand that there are millions of XYZ members that condem anything somebody else does...I am not a newbie to interrnet forums...

I am saying that they chose the same names for their forms because they dipped into the same history...if you where to dig into the USA's history to name something for 20 times, eventualy you'd come up with duplicates, George Washington and John F. Kennedy...and it doesn't mean you stole it.

You just assume from the name that it is a copy. And as the Antagonist to Steven Segal in *Under Siege II* remarked: "Assumtions are the mother of all Screwups"

[Damian Mavis]

Well I'm really not too concerned heh, but theres a million other hardcore ITF'ers that would condemn your school, not saying that to be a jerk, I just know from experience. I've been taught 3 federations styles so I'm not as worried about who does what. My instructor was originally WTF, then when I joined we were ITF, then he switched to GTF after I got my black belt and when I left him I went back to ITF and living in Thailand I've trained alot of WTF. I'm not saying doing something different from what I'm doing is wrong, (I've done alot of different styles!) I'm just arguing about the way it seems your instructor is inferring the roots of his style didnt come from ITF. Dont be too angry at me because I'm just continuing the debate for the sake of debating, what you and your instructor do is no business of mine heh and all the power to you guys. But I'll throw this at you anyway:

You are implying that your federation only shares a few names out of coincidence.... really? In the same order? But the moves are all different? I'm sure the only differences are the ones your instructor did and thought of himself. I'm positive at one time he was in the ITF and after he left he implemented a bunch of changes. In my opinion this is wrong.... but so what..... lots of people break off and do something similar, doesnt mean they can't teach TKD well. Or can't fight well. But to me if I were to break off there would be only 2 options. One is to continue teaching the ITF style and freely admit it and if anyone asks just tell them I love ITF TKD but couldnt stand the politics and federation OR I would get rid of everything and just be independant and not use anything that resembled my previous affiliation. To me when you do something in the middle you risk looking like a bad copy of something much bigger and I would'nt want that. Either stay exactly the same or completely different is the way to go.

Anyway, like I said, no business of mine, just giving my opinion.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[GranFire]

Our federarion created them, that is all. You mentioned they were part of a different name, they might be copied or stolen from another group but their name is Chang Hon and they come from us so I was just telling you their real name since to use another name implies they came from someone else. I won't get into whether it is moral or correct for a group to break off the ITF and then start changing names and things the founder of TKD created and a million people are doing identically across the world in the ITF since I myself was part of the GTF for a period of time (due to my instructors choice) which does ITF stlye without changing anything but is not ITF.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

LOL! If you keep it up you are making me sound like a fortune cookie...then I'll be mad...

The names reflect Korean history. All ITA form also have a global reflection of history, ranging from Charlemagne to White Buffalo Woman of the Lakota Sioux indians of the Northamerican Plains.

I can't comment on the stealing accusation. I only really learned ITA forms. But having put my own form together, there are only so many different moves you can choose from...but still make it your own.

Wanna keep tooting the honor horn about stealing?

There are so many organisations out there, and most share several names of the historical figures, in any shape or form...are you comming down on them as well...and as I understand the history of TKD, in the begining no-one could get along with the other, only since General Choi is there a form of unison, and to my understanding also only because he was in the position of authority...so ease up, you learn something, I am learning something different. If we should meet, we can compare notes, share our wisdom and discuss it over a cup of tea (or harder beverage, if so desired!)

[Damian Mavis]

Our federarion created them, that is all. You mentioned they were part of a different name, they might be copied or stolen from another group but their name is Chang Hon and they come from us so I was just telling you their real name since to use another name implies they came from someone else. I won't get into whether it is moral or correct for a group to break off the ITF and then start changing names and things the founder of TKD created and a million people are doing identically across the world in the ITF since I myself was part of the GTF for a period of time (due to my instructors choice) which does ITF stlye without changing anything but is not ITF.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[GranFire]

GranFire, those are not Ho-Am or Tiger rock patterns..... heh, they are the Chang Hon forms from the ITF that a million other people world wide are doing. Except that your independant instructors eliminated 3 colour belt patterns and changed the belt colours. There isnt anything really wrong with independant, but they are using the ITF style while altering it as they go..... whatever.

The complete list of ITF colour belt patterns is:

Chonji
Dangun
Dosan
Wonhyo
Yulgook
Joongun
Toigye
Hwarang
Choongmoo (for 1 st degree black)

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

LOL! I don't think anybody is claiming they invented the wheel.
Besides, those are the names, the forms look different from other forms of the same name of other organisations...and beleive me, I have checked out a few...

Everybody honors the Korean tradition in a different way, but the historical figures are the same...does it mean something that Choong Moo is representing the Red Belt in the ITA inastead of the Black Belt?

[Damian Mavis]

GranFire, those are not Ho-Am or Tiger rock patterns..... heh, they are the Chang Hon forms from the ITF that a million other people world wide are doing. Except that your independant instructors eliminated 3 colour belt patterns and changed the belt colours. There isnt anything really wrong with independant, but they are using the ITF style while altering it as they go..... whatever.

The complete list of ITF colour belt patterns is:

Chonji
Dangun
Dosan
Wonhyo
Yulgook
Joongun
Toigye
Hwarang
Choongmoo (for 1 st degree black)

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[GranFire]

That is the same ITA I took it from Mr.Bordelon/Keith Edwards/Mr,Mrs.Gordon ^^

is that the same Mr. Gordon who is on the tapes, I think Choong Moo and the Xtreme Design?

I train with Master Ray Davis in Alabama...

[Satashi]

Yeah.

That is the same ITA I took it from Mr.Bordelon/Keith Edwards/Mr,Mrs.Gordon ^^

[GranFire]

We are doing Hyongs the ITA calls the style Ho-Am, Tiger Rock

Chong-Ji (White Belt "Heaven and Earth)
Dan Gun (Yellow Belt, named after the founder of Korea)
Do San (Green Belt, It's the pen name on Ahn Chan Ho, patriot and Educator)
Won-Ho (Blue Belt, The Monk that introduced Buddhismn to Korea)
Hwa Rang (Purple Belt, the Warrior Scholars that protected the king)
Choong Moo (Named after the Admiral who built the Kobuksen)
Gwan Gae (1st L1, Gwang Gae To Wong, who gained much territory for Korea)
Gae Baek
Yoo Sin

And a few more Black Belt forms....

[Ironfist1989]

Currentley learning Won-Hyo tul, i think thats an ITF pattern not a WTF one but whatever i'm replying to the thread lol