I love TKD but...

[Thai Bri]

And the story goes on.......................

[eXcessiveForce]

what don't have any good stories of your own?

[Tom Yum]

Tom, osopardo, make it funnier by putting on some blackface and singing Camptown Races.

Someone's been swimmin in jim beam

[brokenelbow]

Doo Da, Doo Da.

Usually in a fight there is little to gain, so avoidance is the best option.

What do you gain when you fight a fight that could have been avoided, except maybe acceptance into the idiots of the world club.

X, now I'm an idiot? OK Maybe. Define avoiding a fight? Avoiding to me means not having a part of it in any manner or form. That means walking away if I see trouble ahead, walking by and MMOB, or staying home under my bed. But those don't count as a fight, a win, a loss. Once words are exchanged or whatever you want to call the ceremonial opening that precedes the physical altercation, the fight is on. I may try to de-escalate it, I may try to intimidate the other guy, I may give the other fellow what he wants within reason and then run away, but if things go bad I'm ready to go at it. No shifting in mind set.

Good teacher or No, at some point everyone loses if you get into enough fights. You have been lucky not to have been injured to severely, as have many people. If you do not practice avoidance, someday we will here about you being killed on the news.

I never said that I don't lose, I do plenty of times. I just don't think there are that many great lessons from losing. Losing is losing, trying to put a candy coating on it doesn't change what it is. I lose it's because the other guy was better.

Every good teacher that I know of teaches avoidance, verbal de-escalation when it comes to self defense. If yours doesn't, he's not.

And now you pick on my teacher? LMAO!
How do they teach these skills? How do you practice them? My teacher talks about it but it's not a course of study with us.

[Thai Bri]

what don't have any good stories of your own?

No made up ones, no.

[eXcessiveForce]

Empty, exactly how many fights do you get into? If you lose plenty of times you must suck. I have "lost" one fight in my life. Again we are not talking ring or class. In that case, it was before I had done any ground work at all, he got me on the ground and punched the back of my head what seemed like 100 times. He punched himself out, and got off me. It was over, I jumped up albeit a bit dizzy and that was the end of it. He was surprised when I jumped up, I didn't have a mark on me that you could see, plenty of bruises under my hair line though. I had been able to block almost everything except the hits to the back of my head. He hurt his hand from hitting my head. In that case he had 5 guys with him, And none of them got invovled lucky for me. If I had "won" tht would not have been the case.

One time I drew a gun on a guy that had followed me to my door after he saw me doing my run. The gun was behind the door so he never saw it. That ended with him calling the police and it was one of my friends so the whole thing blew over pretty quickly.

One time I drew a knife on someone, I was much younger and was in a no way out situation. That whole story borders on the silly.

I have choked out a few people.

So my question is, if you are losing so much how much are you fighting? You must be walking around with a sign on your back saying attack me.

All I'll say is if you are losing alot, someday you are going to lose to the wrong person and you will be messed up badly or dead.

No one wants to lose, if you lose you can do two things, nothing, or learn from it and make sure you never lose that way again. If you choose not to learn from your loses then it makes sense that you lose a lot.



and you didn't answer any of my questions?
When do you know you won a fight?
At what point is it won?
What do you gain from most real fights?


Use your brain more, and fight less. It will aid in your survival in the long term.

[brokenelbow]

I'd count I'm 7 wins on the street no loses. In the training hall I still have more wins but a hulluva lot of loses. Better calibre of fighter in the training hall.

No one wants to lose, if you lose you can do two things, nothing, or learn from it and make sure you never lose that way again. If you choose not to learn from your loses then it makes sense that you lose a lot.

I'm glad that you have so much time for analysis when you're in a fight.

One time I drew a gun on a guy that had followed me to my door after he saw me doing my run. The gun was behind the door so he never saw it. That ended with him calling the police and it was one of my friends so the whole thing blew over pretty quickly.

You shouldn't own a gun. What happened to your awareness? Why did you let him follow you to your door?

Gotta go to a meeting so I'll answer your questions later.

[eXcessiveForce]

what happened to your plenty of losses if you have never lost?

And you analyze after a fight is done, not during.

Now of those 7 how many of them could have been avoided? And what did you gain by "winning" those 7? fame? fortune

Losing in class is not losing because it's not a fight, That is training. They aren't trying to hurt you like someone that attacks you for real. And if you aren't learning from the losses you have in class then you aren't learning half the lessons being taught.


After a 5 mile run, awareness is pretty low. And why wouldn't I want to own a gun? when I get time I'll get my CC permit and then I'll have one with me most of the time. They Just passed the law this year but you have to take the class.

[brokenelbow]

what happened to your plenty of losses if you have never lost?

Great then I'll take 7 wins 0 loses.

And you analyze after a fight is done, not during.

I'm glad you remember exactly what you did during a fight, especially one you've lost.

Now of those 7 how many of them could have been avoided? And what did you gain by "winning" those 7? fame? fortune

Could be avoided? None of them. Notice that I've had all of 7 over quite a few years, and I'm not counting on that number going up anytime soon. No fame, kept the fortune in my wallet on two of them. Protected several people on another 3. And just the stupidity of youth on two.

Losing in class is not losing because it's not a fight, That is training. They aren't trying to hurt you like someone that attacks you for real. And if you aren't learning from the losses you have in class then you aren't learning half the lessons being taught.

What I learn from loses in class is that I should practice harder before the fight. I haven't lost a fight because of anything I was told to do, I just didn't do what I was supposed to.

After a 5 mile run, awareness is pretty low. And why wouldn't I want to own a gun? when I get time I'll get my CC permit and then I'll have one with me most of the time. They Just passed the law this year but you have to take the class.

So let me get this story right,
Your awarness and avoidance skills were screwed up because of your five mile run. You were aware that a guy followed you to your door. So you opened the door (did you use keys?), reached behind the door, got your gun which stands or hangs readily, you turn around and point the gun at someone who turns out to be your friend. So did he follow you in? If he was that close why did you take the time to open the door instead of turning to confront him? If you had time to get in and close the door why didn't you?
Side note: If you respond with because of the five mile run, AR, or fear then you shouldn't carry a gun.

I'm still not getting where you're coming from. You're on me about winning 7 street fights. You think avoidance is best but I'm getting the feeling that you've had more street fights than me. Maybe I'm better at avoiding and de-escalating these things than you are, who knows. I hang with many people that carry guns, but you seem to have more experience pulling them on people or dealing with drunks who are carrying. What are you doing that your experiences are like this?

[eXcessiveForce]

to keep this as brief as possible,

The running incident, I had been in the house for a good few minutes as he was pretty far behind me as I can tell. Some of what happen I know because of the police officer that spoke with him. The gun was in a drawer very close to the front door. I opened the door and there was a guy there, Didn't know in a few seconds he would start accusing me of things and start yelling. I pulled open the door and grabbed the pistol, and kept it conceled behind the door. He never saw it, situation was de-escalated.

The drunk showed up at my martial arts school after I had gotten done teaching. I was not teaching in a very good area. Someone was knocking on a door we didn't use much, Figured it was a parent (I was somewhat correct) so I opened the door and here was a drunk guy, At the time he was calm, but wasn't able to be understood, he grew agitated and I saw the gun, I had children in the building and no weapons close at hand. I kept talking to him but figured that the only chance if it got worse would be to try and break his neck. Never know if it would have worked because it de-escalated.

Three of my young students about 12yo had to testify against a guy that pulled a shot gun on them. They ran they didn't stand and fight.

I think maybe you don't understand what I've been telling you because you haven't been in the same kind of situation.


I've had a lot of experiences because I've done a lot in my life. I know many people who have been attacked. It wasn't a fight, they didn't have a chance really, They fought back, but were beaten badly enough that they almost didn't live.

I've dealt with people who have been raped, even a couple who have had knives and guns pulled on them.
As I said before I'm not talking about two kids fighting, I'm talking the types of altercations that occur every day to someone somewhere in adult life.

Fights go down after you get through you mid 20's because by then most people have learned what the consquences are or can be.

People who have to win have something to prove. I don't have anything to prove, I just want to live my life safely without interference. And the easiest way to do that is to focus first on avoidance and the use of force as the last alternative. This does not mean you are not ready to use force when the need arises, but for some people it seems their need arises much more freqently than others.

Go back over what i've said, if it doesnt' make sense to you now, wait, and hopefully one day it will.

[brokenelbow]

The running incident, I had been in the house for a good few minutes as he was pretty far behind me as I can tell. Some of what happen I know because of the police officer that spoke with him. The gun was in a drawer very close to the front door. I opened the door and there was a guy there, Didn't know in a few seconds he would start accusing me of things and start yelling. I pulled open the door and grabbed the pistol, and kept it conceled behind the door. He never saw it, situation was de-escalated.

Huh? When did you open the door and when did you grab the gun? You seem to have opened the door twice. If you felt the situation warrented you having to draw your sidearm then you must of been in fear for your life. If so why didn't you just close and lock the door and then retreat to a safe part of your house? It's also very stupid to have a drawn weapon on one side of a barrier and you on the other. You can figure out the why as a mental excercise. You really shouldn't even own a paintball gun without paintballs, much less get a CCP. I'm starting to side with Thai Bri on your stories and I hate siding with him on anything. For a guy with alot of experience you do some really dumb things and don't even follow basic safety precautions. No peep holes in doors to see who is out there. You let a drunk into your school. You "Figured it was a parent ", you assumed something and we know what assuming does. I'm sorry X, but I'm not finding much consistency between what you're saying is the way to go to avoid trouble and the stories that you're telling. From what you've said your awareness skills stink, your avoidence skills are lacking and you're not very confident with yourself. If you're spending so much time descalating situations and you're a civilian maybe it's you who is the problem. I'm probably wrong but that's the impression I've gotten.

I think maybe you don't understand what I've been telling you because you haven't been in the same kind of situation.

Yeah, it must be that.

[eXcessiveForce]

Hey, I give up, I'm not trying to write a novel about my experiences for your reading pleasure, I guess you are way too smart for me. Since I didn't tell you about the house I was living in and how it was setup, or any of the real details of the encounters your really wouldn't be able to judge what my skills where. I believe in pre-emption. When possible I try to have weapons available before I need them.


As an aside, i'll point out that you first said you had losses, and then came back and said you didn't have any. of you 7 fights two you said were when you were young, Since you are still quite young, I'd be inclined to think these were school yard scuffles, not fights.

Bri is unhappy because I closed the thread and wants to be childish, it's of no concern to me, I don't have any stake in what happens here at Defend.net. I just am trying to keep the boards running smoothly. Bri chases off more people than he contributes to this forum. It's been a long time since I saw him post anything constructive. He can choose not to believe what has happened in my life all he wants.

You keep going out there an winning and everything will be okay. Just becareful not to chalk up a win, before it's really over. A nice judgement against you will last a long time, and having someone waiting for you a few weeks after your "win" may change your perspective.

Again see what happened to the guy at Fairtex, I'd say he was a bit over confident in his abilities and he paid for it with his life. Learn from the loss.

[brokenelbow]

Since you are still quite young, I'd be inclined to think these were school yard scuffles, not fights.

What if I'm even older than TB?

I win!

[eXcessiveForce]

Then you inability to understand escapes me.

[HtTKar]

Originally posted by StudioBuddy

What do you mean about the red and brown belt?

How could you not know what the red belt is when this picture from your Dojo shows kids wearing red belts?

According to Spooky, the Red belt and brown belt were never used together in the same ranking.

http://www.vanbinhacademy.com/events2.htm

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