Hapkido and Aikido

[Strepto]

You don't know how untrue that statement is. You have obviously never studied either.

I did study aikido and just started hapkido... I did a real quick reply but I guess it could have been interpreted deifferently from what i wanted to. What I meant basically is that in hapkido you move like in aikido. You also have to be relaxed. You have to joint locks and throws of aikido (like it was said before they all originated from the same art). But on the other hand you have good striking techniques. So i said it looks like aikido + karate cause you have most of the aikido moves and principles and you also have a good striking part. I know it's not aikido and karate mixed together... but to someone who doesn't know what hapkido looks like its the easiest comparaison (maybe not 100% true though)

[brokenelbow]

I've never met a HKD person move at all like an Aikidoka. The very idea of having the types of strikes and kicks like those in HKD get in the way of even basic Aikido movement. Okuyama and Ueshiba were contemporeries and both studied directly under Takeda, although Ueshiba did so for a shorter period. Both men started their own arts, used the same principles, locks and throws and neither art looks like the other.
Many arts have joint locks and throws like Aikido but there are only so many ways to lock a joint or perform an effective throw. What makes Aikido different is the way they set up the lock or throw, and that's one more place where HKD and Aikido differ greatly. Not saying one art is better they just aren't the same. Anyway since Choi learned by observing Takeda, not Ueshiba, why do HKD latch onto Aikido and not Aiki-jutsu which Choi was at the very least exposed to for 30 years?

[ajs1976]

Anyway since Choi learned by observing Takeda, not Ueshiba, why do HKD latch onto Aikido and not Aiki-jutsu which Choi was at the very least exposed to for 30 years?

When I first started looking into Hapkido, I saw posts that said Hapkido and Aikido were basically the same. Maybe this comes from the similarity of the names. The more I read, the more I started to question that view, which is what lead to my original post.

[brokenelbow]

ajs1976, I hope you know that I wasn't aiming that at you. For some odd reason many HKD need to associate themselves with Aikido. If my sensei is right Aiki-jutsu doesn't even look like Aikido since Aiki-jutsu is a combat art. Much ado about nothing really.

[IPON]

I've never met a HKD person move at all like an Aikidoka.

I agree 100%. They are different styles. I am not sure why there is a comparision I assume like somone sttaed that translationof the name. As an aside I went to A Aikido master (7th dan I believ) in NYC and stated that I was interested in Aikido when I told he I studied HKD he asked why I wanted to learn Aikido ...it's the same style. Needless to say that I did not study with him, becuase what he said is completely not true HKD and AIKIDO are completely different. The aikijujtsu looks far closer to what is in an average Aikido dojo than a HKD dojang that is for sure.

[brokenelbow]

It's always been strange to me how Koreans never give a straight history of their martial arts. I doubt Choi was a master of Aiki-jutsu but he was good enough to take what he knew and teach it and eventually create something unique with it. I've heard that Kwang Ki learned karate out of a book and created TSD. I think that speaks alot about the guys drive to create something.

Marc Tedeschi has written a series of Hapkido books with The Art of ... in all of the titles. Very well put together and includes HKD techniques from the practical to high risk. I know that Borders carries them and they are well worth looking into by any marital artist.

[ajs1976]

brokenelbow, I didn't think your post above was directed to me.

One of Marc Tedeschi's books is over 1000 pages!

[brokenelbow]

Yeah Tedeschi needs a hobby. His Art of books are really nice and focus on just one area.

[ajs1976]

Found this while searching for more hapkido information.

Q. What's the difference between Hapkido and Aikido?

A. Aikido founder Morehi USHEBA studied with Sokaku TAKEDA for a number of years as well as a number of other teachers before forming Aikido. The simularity of technique is very apparent between the two arts in the circular non-resistive motions, joint-locking and throwing. Both even are written with the same Chinese characters. However, the philosophy is different in that a Hapkidoist mixes in hard with the soft, including kicks and strikes; plus the footwork tends to be a little different. Possibly CHOI never directly studied with TAKEDA but only watched (and Aikidoists wear the hakamas - which block viewing of the feet). Or possibly the cross-influence of other Korean kicking/punching arts with Hapkido modified the footwork. There has been enough cross training influence over the years that it's very hard to track. There have been HKDists that studied Aikido and Aikidoists that studied Hapkido, with the primary crossover influence being Hapkido Grandmaster Jae Nam MYONG. Myong founded the International Hapkido Federation (one of the top 3 HKD organizations in Korea) and became the International Aikido Federation representative in Korea.

http://www.beckmartialarts.com/chkdfaq.html

[brokenelbow]

I'd take this guy with a grain of salt ajs. Saying Morihei Ueshiba studied with Takeda for a number of years isn't very accurate. Here a good link to get an idea of the on and off again relationship they had. I believe that Ueshiba was a pretty good martial artists at the time he met Takeda. http://aikidojournal.ubernet.net/art...?articleID=306

This guy really didn't take time to research what he's talking about. Using terms like Aikidoists instead of Aikidoka, confusing Daito-ryu with Aikido, and then this...

plus the footwork tends to be a little different. Possibly CHOI never directly studied with TAKEDA but only watched (and Aikidoists wear the hakamas - which block viewing of the feet).

I think if Choi watched for 30 years he might have figured out the footwork of "Takeda's Aikidoists" even if they wore hakamas.

http://www.inside.webhs.org/aikido.html

Try this link, it seems reasonable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapkido

[IPON]

I'd take this guy with a grain of salt ajs. Saying Morihei Ueshiba studied with Takeda for a number of years isn't very accurate.

Yeah I agree

I think if Choi watched for 30 years he might have figured out the footwork of "Takeda's Aikidoists" even if they wore hakamas.

I agree with this as well, I thought that comment was very odd

[EnlightenedOne]

Ultimately, Ji Han Jae is credited with the creation of Hapkido. It is said that his instructor created it and it wasn't named Hapkido then; then Ji Han Jae added to it and called it Hapkido. Just wanted to add that little tidbit about Ji Han Jae.

[medic06]

My teacher used to say that the major difference in Hapkido and Aikido is that in Aikido you make friends with your opponent.

Oh, excellent articles brokenbow. . . .

[Spookey]

Hapkido!

.................Hap Ki Yu Sool.......................................................


Spookey