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To be truely honest i'm sick of all the bad mouthing threads about TKD!!!!!!! i train in ITF TKD in the UK and i gotta say i enjoy it and find it usefull for modern day life simply because its improved my technique in street fighting i have also been told that never to take any stupid risks so i don't try and be cockey and roundhouse someone to the temple if i think i won't land it good enough!!!!! so it takes away the myth about it all being about the high kicking, my dad who was a 2nd Dan black Belt in Shotokan Karate who actually taught for a number of years has come down and watched my lessons and said that my club is a very level- headed club and good atmosphere and run very well!!!!!! the Self- Defense side is very good and my lessons go half and half with Self- Defense and Break Fall techniques, but as i say i'm only 16 so i have loads of time to discover other Martial Arts and i intend to but i don't like to hear bad mouthing of an art stemmed from bad experiences or even pure ignorance !!!!!!! WTF i do agree is aload BS but ITF is so much like Shotokan Karate its uncanny
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Dont generalise about WTF, or ITF, there are some bad ITF schools and some good WTF schools. Dont listen to people that bad mouth other arts regardless of what art. You are 16 so these things get your back up but its really meaningless, its all about ego, everyone wants to think that what they do is special and better than everyone else... just like religion! Next time somebody is criticising an art, realise they are insecure, even if they actually are tough, deep down they are insecure or they wouldnt be trying to convince anyone that what they do is better than what someone else does.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD -
just to let you know, i hate tkd.
so from the opinion of someone who doesnt like it, here are some of the good things about it....
1. greatly improved flexibility.
2. greatly improved balance.
3. alot of tendon conditioning, (quick snap kicks and back hand strikes ect.)
4. improved body cordination, (combos of spinning kicks, ect.)
5. no one can deny that it is actual physical activity, which is alot better then watching t.v.
the reason i dislike tkd, and probably the reason alot of people dislike it is because a person could be getting so much better at fighting with another MA. from day one in MMA/NHB, muay thai, and bjj, you get put on a mat or in a ring and learn how to kick ass. day one in tkd...you learn the iron horse stance.
to conclude, their are benefits to tkd, i cannot deny that. but i, as well as many others dislike it because one could be spending their money at lavados bjj, or champion mma.Comment
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Adding to what zhorner's list of advantages there is also endurance conditioning, and in WTF style, real time fighting.
Now many ppl take TKD for SD and many take it for sport. Not everyone wants to be a kill 'em all cage fighter like Napolean Dynamite's brother or zhorner. Many ppl take it for the complete body conditioning it offers, as an exercize program, or a hobby.
What is unfortunate is that ppl who have the closed mentallity that MA's are only to be used as things to teach one how to kill, hurt, or maim someone in a street fight situation. I already know that mr. zhorner will come back at me with an immature or penile envy comment, but he, as many ppl need to understand that 90% of ppl who take MA's take it for either hobby, exercize, and conditioning.
If you count the % of practicing Martial Artists versus the % of street fights, you will see that only a small percentage of those streetfights incorperates a trained individual. Most of us trained ppl have the modesty and rationality to walk away or prevent a bad situation. TKD as ALL real MA's teach ppl to respect others and try not to use what you learn to hurt ppl unless there is NO alternative.Comment
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how did you know that kip was my hero?Originally posted by TKDTyger
you see...for once i try to say some good things about tkd. and post serious comments about your MA. and you put me down...why is this?
i gave a good reason for not liking tkd, unlike..."tks sucks, mcdojangs, der der tkd is for 8 year old girls...der der" and you just cannot handle it...why?
maybe it isnt tkd that people dislike...but more so the people who study it?Comment
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I agree with what you say there , that most people who train in MA are in it to better themselves physically and confidense wise!!!!! i don't know a hell lot of people who train in any MA to use on the streets, sure you do have the advantage in knowledge but whever you can apply what you learn into a real time situation is another matter!!!!!!! all i know is TKD is a good foundation builder to move onto other thingsOriginally posted by TKDTygerComment
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Even sticking with TKD as I have is a good foundation to have. You dont have to just walk away to another art if it works well for you.
Also zhornor has good reasons for understanding why TKD is good, and he also has a valid opinion of why he doesnt like it. Simply for him its not a MA that suits him best. Everyone has to find their own style that fits them best.
Also WTF is not all crap, of course there is a lot of horrible sport schools only for the olympics, but I was trained in WTF style but I dont give a crap about sports, so its up the the person to train for what reason they want. I want self defense, so I train for it. Luckily I had a teacher who wasnt only about sports, but also emphasized self defense.
The thing is, there are not many serious MAtists out there, and the ones who are who have common sense will move from school to school, or just train on their own with their friends to become better. You have to have a personal drive to be good. Even if your school is a serious fighting school you cant only rely on their teaching. You have to do your own thing with the knowledge you recieve and work things out for yourself. If you want to be better at your own martial art then you have to be open minded to accept different techniques from other arts to add to your own arsenal. IF a TKD fighter truly wants to master fighting he HAS to adopt techniques from grappling arts even if he doesnt train at their schools. He can still pick things up and train them on his own with his friends. Thats what I do. And I EVEN LOVE TO PRACTICE FORMS and I try to master them!Comment
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Yes I understand that you finally said something worth while, but my reaction was the same you give someone else when they have a serious point. Iron Horse Stance. You do not know why we do stances in TKD. Stances are used to develope stronger muscle in the legs. Everything you do in TKD, ITF or WTF is done for a reason and they always help one way or another.Originally posted by zhorner
I dont care what anyone says, TKD is a very useful martial art in comp, street, or whatever. Those who say Tai is better because of the "clinch" or bjj is better because you learn grappling.. never gave TKD a fair chance and therefore quit before they understood why things are done a certain way in TKD. Ppl think practicing high kicks and fancy kicks are only for show. Think about the strength, speed, and endurance that get developed practincing these kinds of things over and over.Comment
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to learn the triple kickComment
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dude...i understand your hostility.Originally posted by TKDTyger
i do understand why you do stances...i took tkd for about 5 months for an activity credit. but if i want stronger legs, and i do, i will do some walking lunges, squats, front sqauts, hack squats, leg extentions, leg press, leg curls, romanian deadlift, good mornings, calf raises, calf extentions, blah blah blah...
also, and write this down because i dont usually say such things, a good tkder can be a great fighter. the problem is, you have to do it for sooooo long before you get ready to destroy some ass. like i said, from day one in some other MAs you learn how to kick ass.
back to a good tkd fighter...someone who has studied tkd for a long time, done alot of real-fighting sparring, and well conditioned as well as very flexible...can kick you in the head before you can blink, (everyone has seen the video of mark coleman getting kicked in the face in ufc and stubbling to his ass) and for all my fellow grapplers who are gonna tear me a new one about kicks to the head...mark coleman is an olympic quality wrestler and one of the baddest grapplers of all time...ARE YOU????
but! as i have stated before. if you take two people of the exact same athletic ability, strength, speed, flexibily, ect... put one in a good tkd school, and the other in a good MMA school each for one year...the second one would kill the first one.Comment
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example of a good tkd fighter? Juraz rulezzz!
and in that video, he beat the shit out of 2 grapplers.Comment
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TKDTYGER, in WTF style they have real time fighting, is there a fedration in TKD that DOESNT have real time fighting? I'm just curious if there is one I dont know about.
ZHORNER, you dont know all the advantages of TKD but other than that I agree with most of what you said in your last post, and I run TKD schools. It takes a long time to become street effective with TKD and it takes a short time with MMA. Most people do not have the patience to stick with something long term and master it. TKD is complicated and hard to get good at, I mean REALLY freaking good, not just "oh look at me and my triple jumping front snap weeee" heh. But after getting pretty good at TKD, everything else I've learned has been simple and easy. Boxing, muay thai, mma and submission grappling all come very quickly to me now, I owe that to all the time I've put into learning the most difficult art to be good at. Learning to use your legs as easily as your hands is not natural and takes years.
Zhorner you said maybe its the people in TKD that other people dont like, this is possibly true but consider this, TKD has MILLIONS of practitioners whereas MMA has very few in comparison. There are 2 things to think about, many people in an art means many more idiots than another art. Also, dont you find ALL martial artists are a little arrogant and full of crap sometimes? I've trained at many different schools and I meet the same dumb attitude from people in all kinds of schools/academys/camps.
If you want to raise your street fighting ability RIGHT NOW, this very week, then take MMA and only learn the shoot to ground and pound. Its very simple and doesnt take much skill at all (although more skilled means more effective) so can be done by the beginner. If you want a martial art and want to master something long term than take a traditional martial art and enrich your life and commit to long term benefits, no quick fix or easy answers, just years of hard work. I personally chose to do both.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKDComment
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zhorner, I apologize for my comments towards you in this thread, but you have taught me to be on my toes. lol. Those leg exercizes you listed usually create mass as well as strength, but stances are strength builders that do not make your legs muscle grow. LOL as for my grappling abilities, I wrestled for 4 years in High School and though I am not an Olympic Champion in wrestling, I learned enough to make it work. I was invited 2 times to train with the U.S. TKD Team in Colorado Springs.
You made the truest of all comments inn your last post. MMA, fast ass-whoopin ability, quickly. TKD (or other true MA) good SD skills and street fight ability, SLOW.
I am glad to hear that you gave it 5 months, most ppl dont give it that much time. However, college or university coarses are not good representitives of ANY MA period.
Damian, I said WTF as it is the TKD I study and seems to be the TKD style that gets bashed the most.Comment
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Ah, I just thought maybe there was a group out there doing TKD that didnt do freestyle continuous fighting.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKDComment
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i just listed those exercises because im an idiot...also because i am more of a weight lifter than a MAist.Originally posted by TKDTyger
i will say that if you take tkd for a loooong time, and cross-train it with some other type of ground based fighting, ( my fav. is basic submission wrestling), then you can be an effective, well rounded fighter...
BUT...do not think for one minute that just because you have a bad-ass kama routine and can do a back flip kick, that you are tough. (when i say you, i mean people in general).
also, i understand that my college tkd class was low level due to the fact that overweight woman whined a lot...but i still learned the basics and a few kata's, that if which i have erased from my memory.Comment
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