Korean arts effectiveness

[Whispers]

I couldn't agree with you more.

Thanks, i'm glad someone does. It seems alot of people ignore me. It's like they just want to sit around and bitch about how people say our styles are inferior, but don't want to do anything about it. Especially when people voice logical arguement and evidencethe lack of fighting ability of Taekwon-Doka as a whole. The Taekwon-do community seem to prefer sitting around and repeating phrases like "well (so and so) kicked butt, so can we" rather than trying to change things and train harder.
We all have a great chance to help and improve our art through practice learning and sharing. Yet it seems most of us would rather piss that chance down our legs

[Bigoldandslow]

Re; Korean Arts effectiveness

This is the first time I have posted after coming across this site a few weeks ago. Let's face it. In the world we live in as well as on this forum there are people who like to talk a lot of crap. That is the way of the world. Discussion about Martial Arts always has a mix of Urban Legend, false bravado and a lot of BS. The people who can do it are doing it, at least probably spending less time behind a computer talking about it or talking shit with their buddies than training. In my years of training I have come across some very tough people. They usually do have some confidence in their abilities and don't quite act like Mr. Miyati but they don't go around bragging a lot either. A lot of people who talk crap about Korean Stylists have not sparred any good ones. There are huge differences between Dojangs. Most commercial Dojangs, in my experience, have a few people who are very good that may get the Masters attention and focus. These people get some good training and compete at relatively high levels. Everyone else gets the instruction second hand, watered down, not very strenuous because the masters are afraid to lose students. I think this in a way is a putdown of their students, in that, they don't feel they could handle real training or even people breaking a sweat. If someone were to walk in off the street they would, of course, probably not be impressed by the level of training. The fact is I have sparred against some experienced kickboxers and other stylists who did not have a clue as to how to spar against TKD techniques. I opened up a school a few months ago. I am training people at a much more intense level than my old school under my old master. To date I have lost very, very few students. Of the few I had not come back, most were from other TKD schools with a reputation for less than intense training (including my old school) Enough out of me for now.

[seppuku]

cross training sounds like a good idea to me. im a thai kickboxer and loving it, but thinking about TKD in the hope of improving my kicks. would TKD actually help or cause more harm than good? i went to one class and didnt go back... they had me walking up and down the club bobbing p and down and punching. said punches had no power behind them whatsoever, and when i stood up more and punched like im used to i was told i was doing it wrong....


any opinions here? i know itll be gym dependent but it TKD a good supplement to muay thai?

[Bigoldandslow]

re:crosstraining

It would be good if you can find the right dojang (school) and an instructor with an open mind. I recently had a 63 year old police officer (in very good condition) join my school. He has a long history of martial arts. I think he holds 4 brown belts in different styles and a black belt in a Kung Fu style. We teach basically 3 different styles of fighting at our school, WTF Olympic style, something which would be close to kick boxing, and traditional TKD sparring. I told him to not think of what he is doing as changing anything but that he is adding a different style to his repetoire.

I think he appreciated this and was able to accept the different style of punches. Of course the kicks he brought in are inferior to TKD, so accepting direction in that area was no problem.

Many masters are very rigid however and will not acknowledge the validity of other arts. These type are very protective of their students, and will not allow them to go to certain tournements, even if it is in the same style. Korean politics are not something you even want to approach.

You really need to go to a number of different classes with different instructors. If worse comes to worse then go with the attitude of "take what you need and leave the rest" You may have to use what they teach while you are there but work on the skills you already possess. Of course many TKD schools have hand techniques that are inferior to Japanese or Chinese arts. I have been fortunate to be under Masters over the last 20 years who had good hand techniques and were not afraid to teach other style of hands. My first Korean master even had a Shotokan instructor run some of the classes. My most previous master had a strong boxing background and taught some decent punching.

The kicks you will learn in a good TKD school will be invaluable. Good luck!

[seppuku]

thanks mate. all advice is good advice. the main thing im worried about is messing up the boxing guard thing. i took shotokan for a while, and all the tense rigidity they inflicted on me means my main problem with thai is relaxing when im moving. atm im too rigid, not light enough on my feet. i can hit the pads hard enough but my footworks a bit dodgy which doesnt help sparring much.

still, come thursday, ill go to TKD and apolgise for sodding off so quickly last time. i went once; i think i laughed at some of the techniques, then left. in fairness to me it was along the lines of strike with your hand straight, hit them with your fingertips... which just doesnt sound wise to me (given a complete lack of conditioning there)

but then.. if i stay for a bit, and get insured and all, theyll let me break boards and i really want to try that

[Bigoldandslow]

Tkd

If it is a good WTF TKD school that teaches Olympic sparring then they should also be teaching you to be very relaxed. To me this is the biggest difference between TDK and Shotokan. It just comes from a different philosophy. Olympic style sparring should actually blend better with boxing type footwork than most karate styles because it is much more fluid and dynamic. I trained with kickboxers in the past and it seemed to me they never really learned to integrate the kicks with the boxing movement. Their combination (kick/punches) seemed very awkward.

The spear hand they were trying to teach you has very limited application and your hand must be conditioned. The only place where it has a chance of being effective would be a strike to the solar plexus (read the very soft spot below the sternum) or possibly in a modified strike to the eyes. I would probably never use it in a real situation. A punch there would be equally effective (or more) and less likely to slightly miss and jam your fingers. Of course I would never use all the high kicks from TKD in a real situation either. Unless it was wide open and worth the risk- this would involve considering several variables.

It almost sounds to me like it was not a WTF school. You should find out because an ATA or ITF style will not blend as well with what you are trying to get out of it. I am not knocking those styles at all. ITF is a very good traditional self-defense style. If I had to choose one style to learn street self defense that would win hands down over WTF. There are some good ATA schools but in general is not my cup of tea.

[tkd_person89]

wow...

I think all bashers are all stupid and ignorant.

KA aren't effective?

wTF.... so how are chinese japanese or american arts any better?

these damn racists piss me off

KA are just as effective as any other ma.

[LoneHusky]

I think all bashers are all stupid and ignorant.

KA aren't effective?

wTF.... so how are chinese japanese or american arts any better?

these damn racists piss me off

KA are just as effective as any other ma.

Dude don't take it personally. I know it's hard that something you're very passionate about is taken lightly but believe me they bleed through similar pains.

[Bigoldandslow]

effectiveness

I agree. Though I will say that certain arts might tend to be better for one person than another. A lot would also depend on body type and temperment as well as a host of other factors. For example if one student may be long and lean and another may be medium height and stocky. The long and lean person's body may dictate that they would excell in a distance fighting art such as Tae Kwon Do and the stockier person may be a little better suited for a style that promotes more infighting, such as Shotokan, Shito Ryu or Gogo Ryu. On the other hand the opposite could be true that to balance the persons natuaral tendencies they could study the other art and strenghten what they lack. For example the stocky person may benefit from going outside their comfort zone and learning the footwork necessary to increase their long range effectiveness.

I think it depends more on the instructor and the students willingness to persevere and work their ass off more than anything else.

[jubaji]

I think all bashers are all stupid and ignorant.

KA aren't effective?

wTF.... so how are chinese japanese or american arts any better?

these damn racists piss me off

KA are just as effective as any other ma.

"Racists"?!

[LoneHusky]

Some people are so quick to cry racism these days.

[tkd_person89]

well

Kinda got pissed off there... Maybe "racism" was a bit too severe.

However, I do hold firmly to my belief that there is no "best art"

MOST of the people that bash TKD base their claims on hypothetical, imaginary situations that never happened and UFC, PFC.

There are no or hardly any Jeet Kune Do, Ba Zaquan (i think how you spell), Hapkido, Wing Chun, Praying Mantis, few Karate guys, just to name a few of the martial arts not in these so-called realistic competitions.

To say these arts aren't effective either is complete bullshit. I respect Muay Thai just as much as the next guy. But the fact that it's successful in a ring does NOT make it any better than TKD.

If that were true, anything else besides BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Sambo, and Kickboxing, should also be bashed.

TKD is not the problem. Problem is poorly trained, cowardly, meek practicioners and uncertified, poor instructors looking to make a quick buck as well as McDojangs.

[shaolin-warrior]

Their is no superior art. Technique is just technique. The superiority comes from the application of technique.

[jubaji]

anything else besides BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Sambo, and Kickboxing, should also be bashed.

That sounds about right!

[BoarSpear]

Their is no superior art. Technique is just technique. The superiority comes from the application of technique.

Its effectiveness also depends on the users experience and courage....IE; it aint the the art in the Man, its the man in the art.