TKD vs American Kickboxing

[Maxx]

Excessive... you claim TKD hasn't been succesfful yet in K-1... but it's not like anyone good actually tried to.

Secondly, that argument I think has no warrant to it because if that were true, that would mean all of the other hundreds and hundreds of styles of kung fu and karate that haven't seen success in K-1 are ineffective for hard, full contact competitions. Your comment is suggesting, then, that full contact competitions are only for Muay Thai and Boxing and Kyokushin b/c they are the only ones that have found success, no?

It has nothing to do with the art in question, but the level of competition. The fighters in K-1 have been at it for years and have traveled all over the world fighting the best that the world has to offer.

If you took a TKD fighter and prepared him for competition in K-1, he could probably do quite well for himself. but if you took some back country boy out of the mountains of Korea, someone with martial arts experience but had never seen anything like K-1, and threw him in the ring with a seasoned K-1 fighter he will most likely get his ass handed to him.

[gabbah]

What you've said there is quite legitamate apart from one crucial thing. All these skills you've listed are assuming that your opponenet is gonna box as well.

This threat was TKD in comparison to American Kickboxing.
At least my kickboxing gym teaches very good boxing (the kicks are not that good though).
Kickboxing is supposed to be boxing + muay thai kicks from what I gather.
So a TKD practitioner should face a fighter with good boxing.
And what Maxx said is that this is the key, TKD does put very much weight on the hands, so in the boxing range they would have a hard time. And my own experience is that if you want to keep someone at kicking range it's not that easy if they press forward with a tight guard. It might be possible with very good footwork.. maybe...
So basically I agree with maxx.

And secondly, if these schools claim to incorporate all of boxing into their curriculum, they might as well just be a boxing school like you've stated. You can't just incorporate boxing into another MA because it by itself is its own system of fighting. You're very right in knocking these schools that claim to add boxing to their curriculum.

Well he didn't say TKD should add boxing, but he said TKD doesn't have good hands compared to kickboxing. They may have better kicks though. Once again, the question would be about the range most of the fight takes place in.

[Piston]

Well I guess it depends. I would say I have good thai kicks, but even so it depends on the type of "fight".
If it's "self defence", with the meaning most people put into that - a threat to your life - then no, I wouldn't kick, as I might very well end up on the bottom in a ground fight. We're of course already assuming escape is not an option (although in most cases it is). In a really dangerous situation, with one opponent that wants to hurt me REALLY bad, I would probably box. If he really wants to hurt me he will close the distance fast, so if I kick I will land on the bottom of the ground fight even if I hit him (unless I'm VERY lucky and knock him out).

Now, if it's a "fight", something I would call pride/ego fight, it's more a thing of proving who's the strongest male. It's basically a status fight.
Those kind of fights I picture as escalating with showing and finally fists. In this kind of fight a lot of circling and fast attacks with just as fast retreat is more common I think. In this kind of fight I might use kicks. High kicks only if he's fairly static. Kicking the head is as easy as kicking the ribs for me, so yeah, I might do it in that case, just to show the guy I can kick him in tha head, so he won't want to fight me.
But most probably I would just talk myself out of the fight or leave.

Its funny actually, the 2 situations I mentioned are in each of the categories you've outlined. Once was a bully who was just being a prick stealing/destroying my stuff so I kicked his head into a wall less than a foot away, damaging his neck by jarring stopping him playing rugby for a few weeks. Never bothered me again, funny that.

[gabbah]

Its funny actually, the 2 situations I mentioned are in each of the categories you've outlined. Once was a bully who was just being a prick stealing/destroying my stuff so I kicked his head into a wall less than a foot away, damaging his neck by jarring stopping him playing rugby for a few weeks. Never bothered me again, funny that.

What about the other situation? What do you train btw?

I have noticed that it's really easy to hit the head when fighting beginners, because they think the kick will land on their ribs. So they bring their hands down to block it and wham, the kick lands flush on the jaw or neck. And these are people who know what they SHOULD be doing when I kick. It takes time to remove the instinctive reflexes.

[Piston]

Well I guess it depends. I would say I have good thai kicks, but even so it depends on the type of "fight".
If it's "self defence", with the meaning most people put into that - a threat to your life - then no, I wouldn't kick, as I might very well end up on the bottom in a ground fight. We're of course already assuming escape is not an option (although in most cases it is). In a really dangerous situation, with one opponent that wants to hurt me REALLY bad, I would probably box. If he really wants to hurt me he will close the distance fast, so if I kick I will land on the bottom of the ground fight even if I hit him (unless I'm VERY lucky and knock him out).

Now, if it's a "fight", something I would call pride/ego fight, it's more a thing of proving who's the strongest male. It's basically a status fight.
Those kind of fights I picture as escalating with showing and finally fists. In this kind of fight a lot of circling and fast attacks with just as fast retreat is more common I think. In this kind of fight I might use kicks. High kicks only if he's fairly static. Kicking the head is as easy as kicking the ribs for me, so yeah, I might do it in that case, just to show the guy I can kick him in tha head, so he won't want to fight me.
But most probably I would just talk myself out of the fight or leave.

Its funny actually, the 2 situations I mentioned are in each of the categories you've outlined. Once was a bully who was just being a prick stealing/destroying my stuff so I kicked his head into a wall less than a foot away, damaging his neck by jarring stopping him playing rugby for a few weeks. Never bothered me again, funny that. Guess that falls in category 2.

The other instance was when I was walking through quite a rough part of where I live, which ain't that rough but rough enough. Anyway some chav came round a corner taking a swing at me, I wasnt expecting this but I was a little more aware than usual because it is a rough area. Anyhow I caught the arm, kicked him in the ribs and head and then just ran.

The point of my rambling is that an art can be effective in either situation, I think my TKD training gave me a.) the reflexes and b.) the awareness of my surroundings, really helping me slip into that "fighters gaze" feeling.

[Piston]

I train in ITF TKD, and that post there was a mistake. the full one is there now.

[kuk sool won]

relating to an earlier remark about mixing boxing in with another MA i would have to disagree, you mentioned that they taught the punches but not the stance and footwork? Well, boxers legs are always left open to attack, why? because they aren't trained or experience being kicked in crucial points around the leg area, im sure you all can remember the first time you were kicked just above the knee on the outside and inside of your thigh, once it caught right it seriously hurts. I don't really beleive kick boxing is boxing plus muay thai I beleive its a new art entirely, you rarley see a kickboxer leaving his legs open as much as a boxer does.

[gabbah]

Yeah that's true, we don't have the typical boxing stance, since it's too deep and you can't block lowkicks that way.

[Tom Yum]

If you took a TKD fighter and prepared him for competition in K-1, he could probably do quite well for himself. but if you took some back country boy out of the mountains of Korea, someone with martial arts experience but had never seen anything like K-1, and threw him in the ring with a seasoned K-1 fighter he will most likely get his ass handed to him.

There has been one maybe two TKD fighters that have competed in K-1 that I can think of. One of the fighters was Serkhan Yilmaz of Turkey. He fought pretty well using TKD style kicking and lunge and reverse straight punches.

Closest I've seen of real TKD in full-contact against other stylists. Serkhan fought Musashi, I think and rocked him a couple of times, but got crippled by leg kicks in the end.

The other fight was a Korean silver medalist versus Genki Sudo. Sudo KO'd the TKD fighter with a well timed spinning backfist of all techniques.

[seanyseanybean]

The other fight was a Korean silver medalist versus Genki Sudo. Sudo KO'd the TKD fighter with a well timed spinning backfist of all techniques.

oh jeez. Youre opening a can of worms there.

theres alot of contraversy about that fight...

[Piston]

I always thought kickboxing came about because Americans didn't like the idea of karate not being competition orientated, and thus not able to be betted and made money on, when it first came over from Japan. Some then took it and made a knock-out orientated version of karate and it became boxing with kicks, kickboxing. I'm not really sure, if this is right though.

Also Tom I love my spinning backfists, everyone expects a backspinning round-house kick or reverse side kick, in TKD at least, that backfist can just whip at the temples surprisingly quickly when a person is just not expecting it.

[seanyseanybean]

oh by the way the way i'd love to see that Yilmaz fight if anyone has a clip?

[tkd_person89]

Wow Tom Yum must be really behind the times or just idiotic.

First of all, the immature organizers said he was a "medalist". They didnt' specify what kind.

Secondly, he was a kickboxer paid to say he was a Taekwondo artist. So do some research before saying this and that and TKD sucks or whatever.

[eXcessiveForce]

Kid, tom yum has never claimed TKD sucks as long as I've seen him on this board.

It time you learned some manners.

[Tom Yum]

Also Tom I love my spinning backfists, everyone expects a backspinning round-house kick or reverse side kick, in TKD at least, that backfist can just whip at the temples surprisingly quickly when a person is just not expecting it.

Spinning backfists are allright but you've got to set them up like any spinning technique. I keep my hands up pretty well.

Manson Gibson was an american kickboxer stylist who could pull them off regularly......against muay thai fighters in Thailand