MT beginner thinking of switching to TKD-wants advice

[new_guy]

Hi folks,

Please, first of all, I don't want this to turn into another retarded "my style can kick your style's ass" debacle. I believe all arts deserve respect and anyone who achieves his or her potential in their chosen art is a hero.

OK, here goes. I started studying Muay Thai a few months back. I chose MT because It's a beautiful art in it's traditional and purest form, effective, straight forward. Another reason I chose it over all other arts is the emphasis on conditioning as I'm a conditioning fanatic.

So anyway, my school changed curriculum and blended MT into a self defense program invented by the school director. Quality, pure MT instruction is hard to come by where I live. As a result, I started looking at other styles and am totally impressed by the TKD olympic sparring I saw, very inspiring. I'd love to work my way up to that style of sparring. I can also see where TKD may almost be as intense with conditioning as MT. I am considering a switch. . . . . not committed to the change, but I am open to checking out another option.

Now, here's where I put myself at risk of making enemies on the TKD board, which is NOT my intention. Reputation has it that many TKD schools are watered down, I believe the term many use is "mcdojo". Where I live, there is a TKD school on every block it seems!

My question is this: How does a prospective TKD student pick a quality school with quality instruction and avoid McDojo syndrome? Which organizations should I look toward (ATA? ITF? WTF?) and which ones should I avoid. Or are the best schools NOT affiliated at all? What questions should I ask? What do I look for?

Insight? Opinions? Wisdom? I welcome yours.

[Tom Yum]

If a school advertises they can get you to a black belt in X amount of years, watch out. Everyone trains and progresses at a different pace, anything less than 4 years is bull. Avoid contracts period, most of the ones with contracts are doing that to keep people in the school instead of teaching good technique to keep the students there.

True.

When you go to a school, don't just look at the white belts, look at the black belts, if they are fumbling around, hit the door.Be weary of the instructor, ask them about their rank and their certifications, if they cannot show you, they are probably not legit. You can always tell how hard an instructor trained by how hard he trains his students.

You are correct, sir. I forgot to mention that not all white belts are beginners in the martial arts - so checking out the black belts are even more important.

Sorry, I don't agree with teaching yourself TKD kicks. I have had numerous people come through my door that have been "self trained," they all looked pretty much the same, awful. You need the advice of a professional to show you the mechanics of the kick to get maximum effectiveness with minimum effort. That come only from people with an understanding of the techniques. A front kick looks simple from the untrained eye, but the body mechanics involved are quite complex.

It depends. I think those who already have a good deal of experience in one system, can self-train in another system that is slightly different.

For example, I think it would be easier for a 1st dan in shotokan karate to learn TKD on his own, especially if he's competed against them. He already has a good grasp of body mechanics and balance.

I agree, that self-training is bad for those who do not have experience and that usually their techniques are sloppy or lack power.

Bowing to your experience here.

[JStinson]

People often think they can self teach, and one can to an extent. Let's say someone wants to learn how to do a certain spinning kick. They can go get a book and see about 3-4 pictures of the kick and read about 5-6 sentences on the kick. Not plausible. They can watch someone do this at a tournament or on a video, fine, but are you sure your balance, timing, foot placement, angle of attack, body placement, center of gravity, (do I need to go on) is correct??? The mechanics of one style is not the same across the board in another art. Chung Do Kwan was invented by a student of Shotokan, so they should look similar, somewhat yes, but the philosophy of the motion is different which means they are not the same.

I myself do not attempt to do a new technique without seeking the advice of someone superior to me that know the intricate details of the movement. To many people think they can just learn to do anything and then pass it off as true martial arts then teach this to other students. This is why 90% of martial art schools promote sorry students that do not know proper technique. What will martial arts look like 5 generations from now. I am doing my best to teach as I have been taught and instill into my students the importance to keep martial arts true and not teach gymnastics and weak sport techniques.
Sorry, stepping down from the soapbox.
J Stinson

[Tom Yum]

I myself do not attempt to do a new technique without seeking the advice of someone superior to me that know the intricate details of the movement. To many people think they can just learn to do anything and then pass it off as true martial arts then teach this to other students. This is why 90% of martial art schools promote sorry students that do not know proper technique. What will martial arts look like 5 generations from now. I am doing my best to teach as I have been taught and instill into my students the importance to keep martial arts true and not teach gymnastics and weak sport techniques.
Sorry, stepping down from the soapbox.
J Stinson

That's great, sir. I'm glad that you teach your students the real deal, rather than gymnastics and weak point-sparring techniques. If I ran a martial arts school, I would feel the same way.

Another reason why schools promote students with sloppy technique also has to do with the business side of operating an MA school and the trade off of collecting fees vs. making better students in the long run.

Learning from videos alone is not a substitute for expert instruction, but it can give you an idea of how to do the technique if you have previous experience. And as you've pointed out, you can come across stylistic differences.

I would recommend against someone without any experience to try and learn any martial art system with a video.

[JStinson]

Yes, true. These schools are very common, but the funny thing is they come and go. The traditional schools that promote quality black belts will stay around.

As for the self teaching, I can see we will just agree to disagree. By the way, are you self taught?

[Tom Yum]

Yes, true. These schools are very common, but the funny thing is they come and go. The traditional schools that promote quality black belts will stay around.

True.

As for the self teaching, I can see we will just agree to disagree. By the way, are you self taught?

95% of what I've learned has been through an instructor in either a class or privates.

The remainder has been through picking up some new stuff on my own, then eventually taking it to someone who can work with it.

[JStinson]

So then you are saying that even though you are self taught, you sought out someone qualified to teach you the "correct" way to do things???? As an instructor, I prefer people to come into my school with no knowledge whatsoever of martial arts. That way I do not have to unteach bad habits they have picked up. Ends up taking twice as long to teach something basic, mainly because I have to teach them they are not doing it right and then teach them the right way.

[new_guy]

well if you like Olympic sparring then WTF is where you will do most of that. ATA also offers olympic sparring but not every instructor offers it.

I prefer the ATA system to WTF and ITF. But it is a personal preference thing.

Also it completely depends on the instructor who will be teaching. Hard to find quality instruction in any of the systems now a days.

What do you like about ATA?

There is a new ATA school down the road.

[Tom Yum]

So then you are saying that even though you are self taught, you sought out someone qualified to teach you the "correct" way to do things???? As an instructor, I prefer people to come into my school with no knowledge whatsoever of martial arts. That way I do not have to unteach bad habits they have picked up. Ends up taking twice as long to teach something basic, mainly because I have to teach them they are not doing it right and then teach them the right way.

So far, it hasn't been that bad. Some styles aren't geographically accesible.

This is where videos can help. At the same time, I wouldn't try to teach myself how to do something without atleast having a background in a similar style.

And the video would merely be an introduction to the style and in no way a substitute for classroom instruction or private lessons.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Why would you want something "in its pure form?" What's happening is what your instructor is evolving his fighting style and wanting to teach it to his students. Stick with it bro.

[el_guapo]

why don't you try your instructor's new system? maybe you will like it

[WildWest.]

I do both Hapkido and MT. If you can find a good MT school stick with it. If you want practical self defence you can't really go wrong with MT but Hapkido will fill in all the gaps that MT doesn't. Not that other styles don't fill in the gaps, it's just that there is not a variety of MA's where I'm from so don't have the luxury of picking and choosing. I think I'm fortunate to have what we have.

I have a BB in TKD as well and it is great for developing balance and footwork but if you're after self defence I wouldn't recommend it as my personal choice. However if you want to get into the sport side of it then by all means go for it and go hard.

[el_guapo]

I do both Hapkido and MT. If you can find a good MT school stick with it. If you want practical self defence you can't really go wrong with MT but Hapkido will fill in all the gaps that MT doesn't. Not that other styles don't fill in the gaps, it's just that there is not a variety of MA's where I'm from so don't have the luxury of picking and choosing. I think I'm fortunate to have what we have.

I have a BB in TKD as well and it is great for developing balance and footwork but if you're after self defence I wouldn't recommend it as my personal choice. However if you want to get into the sport side of it then by all means go for it and go hard.

what gaps does Hapkido fill?

[Tom Yum]

what gaps does Hapkido fill?

kicking from different stances/angles, open handed strikes, stand up grappling (non-clinch based), De-escalation techniques, breakfalls and weapons (either traditional or improvised depending on the system).

[WildWest.]

What Tom said. Also Hapkido has locking techniques, ground fighting, chokes, pressure points, joint manipulation and throws.