TKD Master who found that tkd does not teach fighting

[Newbie]

"Also he was up against a trap fighter who was about 10 years younger and 20lbs. heavier."

Actually it's more like 80 pounds. Paul Varlens is listed at 6'8 300 pounds.

"He was using traditional blocks well and boxing like punches, also made good use of the front snap kick."

It's been awhile since I watched it, except I seem to remember Worsham trying one front snap kick right away and after that two guys whaling on each other like two kids on the playground. Worsham was landing more blows, except the big oaf was doing more damage. Eventually Worsham sought refuge in a clinch and got elbowed from above as a result of not clinching effectively.

[Shrimp]

GinSueDog has it right IMO: "If you train poorly and unrealistically then no matter what style it is whether it is Muay Thai, BJJ, Sambo, JKD odds are you are going to fight poorly. It is just some arts are better known for using training methods that are simply more effective."

[Americana]

I had to respond to the post about the effectiveness of Olympic TKD. Olympic TKD sparring is the same as tournement tkd sparring, its basically point sparring: high kicks are highly favored; low kicks are illegal; and you have to "pull" hand strikes to the head. These rules create an almost dance like "combat" between the "fighters."

The Olympic participants are very good at what they do and it's very theatrical, but so is synchronized swimming. And olympic tkd and synchronized swimming are equally applicable to fighting.

[Maxximus]

I have to totally agree with Americana regarding Olympic TKD.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Sadly so do I, and I have been in it for six years. It has taught me one thing, how to kick really well. In fact my that was one of the few positive things the Muay Thai instructor had said to me on my first lesson. Then again, it was because I was trying to swing and not snap...

[Fiery Ermine]

Apocryphal Stories

Honestly, I don't think that apocryphal stories like this prove anything whatsoever. It's no different than some TKD guy coming on here and saying that his classmate beat up three guys.
I actually have a story from one of my workmates about some of his TKD classmates getting in a fight with some guys at a McDonalds and the TKD guys kicked ass. I have no reason to doubt my friend's word.
Clearly, TKD has some limitations, especially as it's trained for sport, but there are also some useful techniques. I'm not a TKD guy, but I studied Karate briefly and my core art is JKD. I've trained BJJ and I currently train Muay Thai three days a wekk and JKD two days a week. I've sparred TKD blackbelts that I could beat with my hands behind my back. I've also sparred some pretty tough guys with TKD backgrounds, and I wouldn't want to be hit by anyone's spinning jump kick. I think some of these guys would be awful dangerous in a real fight.
Anyway, I'm sick of the elitist attitudes that some MMA fans seem to have. I think people should keep open minds or else they'll end up the same way as the "Martial Artists".

FE

[MADDOG]

Hello,

I am new to this forum but not to the MA.

I understand that the majority of today’s TKD’ers are not martial in their training. They train for a sport that has rules and in the confines of these rules they adapt their techniques to be successful – but yet this is a sport – not a martial art that they practice.

Even the UFC is a sport with its rules – but yet they are the best in what we have today for a proving ground. The UFC does have merit for it has change the MA community for the better, by making us all more rounded martial artist.

For TKD, I know that there are independent American TKD Dojangs that have not gone the way of the McDojo’s. They are hard to find but they are out there. The majority of them have adapted and improvised their art to be more effective. I cannot say the same for the majority of the so-called Martial Art schools, regardless of their style that they teach.

For me I teach and practice American TKD. Adapt –Improvise and Overcome. On the ground – stand up – or wear ever. But most importantly be respectful and have integrity in all that you do. To me this was the TKD that my instructor taught me, and what I am trying to teach my students.

Thank you.

Ed Barton

[jubaji]

For me I teach and practice American TKD. Adapt –Improvise and Overcome. On the ground – stand up – or wear ever. But most importantly be respectful and have integrity in all that you do. To me this was the TKD that my instructor taught me, and what I am trying to teach my students.

Thank you.

Ed Barton

I guess you don't teach spelling!

[MMARuss]

Well, that seemed rather rude.

[Nick]

...

Okay:

TKD teaches great balance and kicks. A great supplemental art.

Due to the fact that it emphasizes kicks alone and has very little punching and no clinching/grappling, it is severely lacking.

Although this is true, there are still some who can still hold their own against Thai Boxers, grapplers, etc.

Later...

[MADDOG]

Hello jubaji,

Sorry about the spelling.

Thank you.

Ed Barton

[MADDOG]

Hello ijabuj,

Just practicing my spelling.

Thanks again.

Ed Barton

[MMARuss]

This is kind of a sad story. Years ago I regularly attended a tkd school on the east coast. The head instructor was a Korean immigrant (suprise). He was a 4th degree black belt and was considered a real bad ass by the students. He could do also sorts of amazing jump kicks, etc.

One day he came in looking a little disheveled and asked the class who was there to become a "fighter." The whole group sort of looked sheepishly at each other and a couple of people raised their hands. He then said well, this is not what we're doing here. You will not become a "fighter" by taking these classes.

Alot of students were shocked. It turns out that our TKD master had been beaten up that day in some street dispute. There was only one guy and no weapons involved. His tkd was useless. Now this was not a yellow belt on the six month course. He was in his prime and had been doing this tkd since he was a child.

This is a lesson in how far fetched traditional U.S. martial arts training is. If you don't know the severe limitations of these martial arts, they can do you more trouble than good.

Friend by Proxy:

I have been in Tae Kwon Do for 3 years. It has taught me how to fight and also how to not fight when you don't need to. My instructor is a 3rd degree black belt and he is a BAD ASS. He has defeated many opponents in tournament and in real life. You can't judge every TKD and the teacher from past experiences. TKD has lots of different teachings and fighting is only one of them. TKD is not all about high kicks as you probably know since you were in it. Kicking ass is an art in itself.

[rkcann01]

No offense to you Russ, but 3rd degree black belts should not be instructing. Or did you mean that he was just helping you individualy? There is an unspoken rule in TKD that you can not open a dojang without at least being a 4th school, and for good reason.

[eXcessiveForce]

that's bull. I opened my TKD school as a first degree. I have been a blackbelt for over 14 years and am only a second degree and probably will never test again because I see no need to test again. Hell i've been teaching for over 10 years.

Every system is different.