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John Lewis: a no talent

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  • #31
    EJ:

    macdawg: Kenny's speed is well known. Could/can complete a shot from unusual distances.

    In regard to John's performance; he was overconfident in his standup game. Apart from that, he is definately a legit BJJ blackbelt. It was earned. In a matter of two years he became Rickson's top bluebelt, and was just short of being promoted to purple prior to changing instructors. He trained full-time with Andre and nothing but NU blackbelts when he was taken up by Andre. Under those kind of conditions, you tend to learn a little faster than the traditonal two hour classes a couple times a week, being fed little by little. Add to that his pre-existing Lebell blackbelts, and he wasn't exactly a stranger to grappling. Many other legitimate blackbelts have earned theirs in less time; Fabio Gurgel, Nino, Vitor Ribeiro etc. NHB performance does not equate to grappling/BJJ ranking. Are Amaury Bitetti, Francisco Bueno, Saulo Ribeiro and Wallid Ismael, because of their unsuccessful NHB fights, not legitimate blackbelts in your guys' oh-so-wise opinion? Don't you think John would have been discovered as a fraud with many big names frequenting his school to train? Do you think he would be the North American Nova Uniao(N.U.) president if he were a fraud? Is Andre Pederneiras not a good instructor in your opinion? Are his world champion students simply flukes? Why does the rest of N.U. team respect John and his ability? Why is he able to hold his own against other N.U. blackbelts in training? Are they part of the conspiracy as well? Why do his school and his students perform so well in tournaments? Why does Carlson sr. endorse his videos? It's rediculous to me people persist with beliefs like this.



    [Edited by Oberleutnant on 12-03-2000 at 11:05 PM]

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    • #32
      Lewis supposed black belt in bjj is just another reason I have no respect for the bum.

      First, as we all know, he didn't legitmately earn it. Guys like Matt Sera of Renzo have put in years and years of study and training and competition. Matt Sera is a legitimate bjj black belt.

      John Lewis purloined one in highly questionable circumstances. He never earned one.

      I would respect Lewis more if he were like Frank Shamrock or Sak. Neither of those guys is so insecure with his status as a grappler that he can only have legitimacy by claiming to be a black belt. Sak and Frank are so secure that they don't give a rat's ass about black belts. But John "the pussy" Lewis has to get himself a black belt in bjj, just because he sucks as a fighter and a grappler.

      John Lewis and Jason Fairn should start a school together.

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      • #33
        Americana: You said "First, as we all know, he didn't legitmately earn it. Guys like Matt Sera of Renzo have put in years and years of study and training and competition. Matt Sera is a legitimate bjj black belt. "

        So are Gurguel, Ribeiro, BJ Penn, Nino etc. etc. not legitimate blackbelts because they did not spend the typical amount training before receiving theirs? What in your definition is a legitimate blackbelt? Please be specific. I'd also appreciate answers to the questions posed in my former post; they weren't just asked in rhetoric.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Oberleutnant
          So are Gurguel, Ribeiro, BJ Penn, Nino etc. etc. not legitimate blackbelts because they did not spend the typical amount training before receiving theirs? What in your definition is a legitimate blackbelt? Please be specific. I'd also appreciate answers to the questions posed in my former post; they weren't just asked in rhetoric.
          Please don't mention Gurgel et al. in the same breath as Lewis. And yes, you are correct, those guys didn't spend the typical amount of time earning their BB's, they worked harder and/or longer.

          My definition of a legit BJJ BB is someone who consistently competes against other legit BB's, and has a winning or even record. I am skeptical of guys that skip around instructors and then go straight to NHB without proving themselves in BJJ.

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          • #35
            To Ober

            I'll try to answer your questions with some facts about John Lewis.

            To my knowlege Lewis has not competed in any bjj events such as the Mundials. He was interviewed by ADCC about competing and said he really wanted to but was too busy teaching. (He's doing a seminar today on the much over looked technique of using the chin to block a left hook!)

            Lets look at some facts concerning events Lewis has participated in

            Opponent Event Result

            Carlson Gracie, Jr.; Extreme Fighting Draw
            Jim Teachout Extreme Fighting 2 Win
            Rumina Sato Japan Vale Tudo '96 draw
            Johil de Oliveira Extreme Fighting 3 draw
            Kenny Monday Extreme Fighting 4 loss
            Rumina Sato Japan Vale Tudo '97 loss (Lewis tapped out to an armbar)
            Lowell Anderson UFC 22 9/24/99 Towel win
            Laverne Clark Loss WEF 8 loss
            Jens Pulver UFC Loss

            Ober, by my count Lewis is 2-4-3. The two guys Lewis defeated (Teachout and Anderson) have no recorded nhb victories. Lewis is a joke.

            Also, it was Rickson who first raised questions about Lewis' black belt.

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            • #36
              Americana:

              The guys who beat him are awesome: Monday, Sato, Clark, and Pulver.

              The guys he drew with are awesome: Carlson, Sato, Oliveira.

              Calling Lewis a joke is absurd. He also destroyed a legit BB in Lowell Anderson. What does that make Anderson?

              A guy makes a mistake and suddenly his accomplishments mean jack. That is the REAL joke.

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              • #37
                Do you really think Lewis is great having losing record? He's lost twice as many fights as he's won. Lewis' draws have been pathetic stalling matches. I can't imagine why this guy is such an icon in some mma circles.

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                • #38
                  Americana, I think you've made your point. I don't think he's a great talent either, just a mediocre fighter. He seems like good guy. I think he's been bashed enough now.

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                  • #39
                    Americana:

                    I didn't say he was great, and he's not an icon to me, but he has hung with some tough guys.

                    He definitely has skills. Anyone can make a mistake and get decked. Give the guy a break!

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                    • #40
                      Ober,

                      Come on man, you've been here a long time and should know better than to even acknowledge Americana's existence. He's a troll, and not even an amusing one at that. Lewis is a legit black belt, and everyone knows it, including Americana.

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                      • #41
                        1998 Black Belt Challenge in Irvine, CA. I was there.

                        Event featured Megaton, John Machado, Fabio Santos, Dave Meyer, James Boran, Ricardo Miller, Tony Emanuel, Margarida, Renato Magno, Roy Harris, JJM, and more.

                        John Lewis beat Claudio Franca, BJJ black belt, 2-0 in a 10 minute BJJ match.

                        At the time I thought Lewis would get smoked... he proved that he belonged there.

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                        • #42
                          Americana: Quit dancing around my questions. A debate isn't possible with someone who refuses to answer rebuttals and instead choses to dance around picking from different angles each time. The logic fueling your 'rebuttal ' means that (in your mind) Francisco Bueno, Saulo etc. are 'fake blackbelts' as well. I don't think dominating Johil is any easy task. How many 155lbers can you name that could put away Johil in under 5 minutes? (remember the rnds)

                          What's inside: Did Helio ever compete in sport JJ? He must be a fake! Did Carlos jr. ? he must be a fake! Did Monteiro, Mansúr, Bueno etc. compete? No... they must be fakes! (in your mind).

                          [Edited by Oberleutnant on 12-04-2000 at 10:34 PM]

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Oberleutnant
                            Did Helio ever compete in sport JJ? He must be a fake!

                            [Edited by Oberleutnant on 12-04-2000 at 10:34 PM]
                            I hope you're kidding. If not, you need to shoot over to bjj.org and learn some history.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by What's inside a girl?

                              My definition of a legit BJJ BB is someone who consistently competes against other legit BB's, and has a winning or even record. I am skeptical of guys that skip around instructors and then go straight to NHB without proving themselves in BJJ. [/B]
                              So, did he ever compete? What about the rest?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Oberleutnant
                                Originally posted by What's inside a girl?

                                My definition of a legit BJJ BB is someone who consistently competes against other legit BB's, and has a winning or even record. I am skeptical of guys that skip around instructors and then go straight to NHB without proving themselves in BJJ.
                                So, did he ever compete? What about the rest? [/B]
                                Ober, Helio Gracie is the father of our sport. He was practicing BJJ before it was called BJJ. In the early days he would challenge wrestlers to grappling contests at local fairs, he would also challenge judokas. The history is fuzzy, however, I doubt that anyone would accuse Helio of not being a legit black belt. For god sake, he beat the world#2 judoka. Remember, these were the days before organized BJJ contests.


                                Sorry Ober, picking this example just makes you look stupid^10.

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